The Sartorialist

That body is SO nice! and out of system…

i really apreciate this post because she looks AMAZING!

^-^

how skinny are the girls out there!?! this girl's perfect. and she's got some killer style. please do post more pictures of body harmony!
http://indieelectronicalternative.blogspot.com/

The Lita's are amazing, im getting them for my shop next month!

yessiricanboogie-greggy.blogspot.com

big? If you say so. I know she is for Paris. But, I think she's perfect.

Thank you for posting such a beautiful girl with a real body. I love her casual chic look with punchy shoes!

http://rayinthewindycity.blogspot.com

I wouldn't call her curvy. She may be a bit more fit than other sylph-like bloggers you see; in my book, however, muscular does not equal "big."

she must have those shoes in every color since it's the same shoe style- they're very nice and they do create a great harmony with her "curvy" body…however, if you think she's curvy- then what is someone like kim kardashian? this girl looks very small to me and looks like she could still be a model…she's beautiful and i would kill for legs like those… i'll take curvy legs over chicken legs any day!

PERFECT pics!!!
lovely
xx

http://www.ilovenystyle.blogspot.com

Yes! She is beautiful and stylish, and I appreciate that she is "more normal" unlike *some* skinny bloggers, but she AIN'T "CURVY" she's normal probs a UK 10 like me….! Nevertheless, I'm happy to see a girl who isn't gross and sickly looking…

for another amazing bod look at Karla's Closet..the cali blogger with a great boddyyy

ummm…. curvy? okaaayy… this statement is hilarious to me.

anyway, love the color of her litas!

xx
http://www.SHINYUPSIDEDOWNCROSSES.BLOGSPOT.com

Why even mention her figure – surely it doesn't make a jot of difference to her ability to put together an eyecatching look?

curvier girls all the way! very cute

She is hardly "big."

she looks amazing but as someone with a similar body shape can I say please stop with the 'sturdy'.

yikes. the thought would have never crossed my mind that she is "bigger." lovely, yes.

When will a girl who is obvious attractive simply be 'attractive' and not 'attractive for a curvy girl'?

Forget all the extra adjectives. Yes, she's pretty and yes, she understands the importance of proportions. (Only antique mahogany furnishings should be commented on for sturdiness).

I think you have been in the fashion industry too long if this girl is "curvy" or "sturdy." She has a lovely figure and a wonderful sense of style. I agree with the commenter above – why even mention her weight? If you include her to be "diverse" and then point out why she is so different to all the other women you feature here, what is the point? Finally, I have never seen you make similar comments about the men you feature here, some of whom might be considered "robust."

Waowwww

I love it!

Besos desde ♥ La ropa me vuelve loca!

I think she's perfect. and love her shoes!

guiltlessbeauty.blogspot.com

she is gorgeous!

both are awesome!

http://www.mybabymydarlig.blogspot.com/

To everyone that is concerned about the assessment of this lady's body type, please pay attention to what was actually written:

"She's a bigger, curvier girl than most of the other bloggers who you see in the the press."

He did not say she is big or curvy, but biggER and curviER than other ladies in the industry. It's a comparative statement, not saying she's big. Apparently a lot of people in the fashion industry are tiny. It's not a rude or demeaning assessment in any way.

Just saying…

love the fact she's curvy girl! I'm so bored of those hundreds fashion bloggers who look like the same: thin, without curves!
She's wonderful and i like her style!

In Moda Veritas

Wow. "Curvy." Really? She looks pretty long and lean to me. Is she curvy from a different angle? I really just don't see it from the two images you posted.

Hi!
what is her blog?
Xoxo
M

Love the second look with the camel blazer. SO chic.xx

Melanie
http://www.theiconicblog.com

sturdy? are you kidding me?

anyway, she is absolutely lovely.

I am SO glad I'm not the only one who did a double-take on the curvy, bigger, and sturdy language. I actually scrolled back up to look again and am still not sure I know what you're talking about because that girl's body looks a LOT like mine and I drift between a size 2 and 4. You KIND of have a hint of a butt but I'm not sure what you're talking about. Her thighs? Maybe? You want curvy, you need to spend some more time in Miami.

She's very pretty! Love women with curves like hers. Beautifull shot

"Sturdy but beautiful," "she's a bigger, curvier girl"… really? I think these comments need some editing, please.

My question is this: Why feel the need to comment on her body shape at all?

I don't feel your blog is the right platform to be discussing women's bodies in any shape or form. Stick to the style details..

http://www.layersandswathes.com

she is gorgeous. i don't think any comment needed to be made on her shape or size as she looks very normal to me.

I especially like the top photo which shows off her curves in those jeans. It's so nice to see a woman with a shape and not so thin. The shoes in each photo are Rockin'!

that´s why I don´t wear heels like that (because of skinny legs). But she is a real beauty!

I would not consider her 'big' either. but in all honesty..before i read the text, i did think to myself that this girl looks bigger than those i am used to seeing on this blog and others like it.

but on another note. she looks beautiful, love the shots.

i do love myself some booty.

Je me réjouis de découvrir ces manières d'appréhender les jambes un peu plus en forme ♥

both pairs of shoes are to die for.

http://styleaccordingtome.blogspot.com

This girl looks amazing and she has a beautiful body! Sorry,but big is for Beth Ditto, sturdy is for Serena Williams, curvy is for Christine Hedricks ;)
THIS girl is just young, charming and amazing!

I would hardly call this woman's legs "sturdy" – ee gads! She just doesn't have the stick legs of the professionally emaciated. For a non-model, she looks quite fit and I would even say slender to me. I love the blog, but I found this post alarming and kind of back-handed compliment. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Cheers.

She's got a beautiful profile.

Why exactly are we commenting on this woman's figure? I thought The Sartorialist was a place where I could look at clothes/people without being subjected to the constant body commentary that I normally find on style blogs.

Your patronising comments on her style, calling her 'bigger', 'curvier' and back handed compliment on her dress sense just serve to further alienate readers who are not a sample size, which I would assume is the larger portion of your audience.

If you had posted this devoid of your commentary I'd probably have been pleased you were posting a picture of someone who was slightly larger than usual, though nor particularly, and left it at that. The fact that you felt the need to praise her as though you were doing this woman some kind of favour smacks of an internalised body fascism that is, if I am being honest, always seen running through your posts.

I'm disappointed in you Scott, and I'm disappointed at many of the commenters here who have praised you for this post.

She is beautiful (such an over used word).

she's so COOL. i love her shoes! :)
xx

yougotsomestyle.blogspot.com

She is still a slim girl, hardly worthy of the 'curvy' label.

I understand this is meant as a celebration of all sizes, but why single her out for the size of her legs (still slim) when she has such great style.

praise curvy women…..we are mucho in love, in equal parts, with each other…
xoxo

So shocking (because I am an eternal optimist and always hope that you fashion folk are going to get it together on what constitutes "thin" and otherwise…) to hear you call this tall, SLIM girl "curvy" and then call her legs "sturdy." I am sad and disappointed that someone with as much power as you have feels it is okay to comment on this woman's body because it fails to fit in with the ideal of emaciation that remains dominant in fashion. This woman is beautiful. That is all that matters. Even if she WERE "sturdy" or "curvy" (a euphemism for chubby, if ever there was one), it would STILL be all that matters.

she is not big, not even curvy, but her legs look somewhat big in those tight jeans, which are just way to short in my opinion. That way her legs look short, even though she obviously got very beautiful legs and wears very high shoes(which I love). So I really do not like her jeans in the first picture and I don't see what you mean with "body harmony" there – I think it's the opposite. The rest of the look is great I think, I love that dark blazer and her scarf and the whole colour combination.
In the second picture she mastered it very well and by looking at this shot I wouldn't even think of words like "big".

this girl is "bigger" than other fashion bloggers who tend to be very slim, however i think the term "curvy" is thrown around too loosely at anyone who isn't a size 0-6. If you're an average female size that doesn't make you curvy, that just makes you average.

This girl is STUNNING and has a killer body. If I was her, and I read this post, I would be mortified that you called me "bigger" and said my legs are "sturdy". I can't think of a more offensive thing to say about someones legs. The word sturdy should never come up in describing anyone at anytime. I am so disappointed in the description of this woman and this post.

I understand you want to show readers you appreciate more than stick-straight bodies, but it is beyond offensive that you would even bring attention to this woman's weight. "Bigger," "curvier" and "sturdy" are term use to nicely describe an overweight woman's body. She looks like she is in great shape, so why can't you just let the picture speak for itself? Yes, I realize she does not have a typical fashion industry body, but I don't appreciate her weight being the focus of your post.

She looks great!

http://www.lostinvogue.com

I used to be "lady" photographer wearing heels…Respect for these ladies :)

I think "body harmony" is a very careful way of indicating that she is somehow making up for the fact that she isn't the norm for the fashion industry, and I think you use it in a way that is still harmful for the collective female body image.

There is always this notion that, well, if you're going to be "curvy", which in this industry more or less means that you're above a size 2, you have to "rock it out" or "own it", as though the sheer fact that those hips are inseparable from your image isn't enough to make it OK or fashionable.

This just reinforces a dichotomy and a hierarchy of defined types of people, with the skinniest being able to wear pretty much anything, the "curvy" having to wear solid shoes, and the overweight needing to wear spanx and boot cuts to keep things looking slim.

I'm tired of seeing normal women, women with shape, continually described as "curvy". What does that serve?

I usually don't comment on your posts( i just enjoy them)but i really don't see that she is "big" i also don't see why you would have to mention that… Maybe you don't understand because you are not a woman but that sort of comment on a woman's body can cause her to become self conscious… She's beautiful btw.

I read an interview with you once where you mentioned that you are sad that bigger girls don't let you take their photo for the blog because they are afraid they are going to be mocked.
Well, this is why. This girl is not bigger. She has somewhat muscular legs but not in an "almost plus-size model" fashion. Not even close. You called her sturdy, curvy and bigger – please be aware that for people who suffer from an eating disorder these can be triggering terms. You have to be very careful how you describe body shapes.
Honestly, as people said here, you should have just not mentioned her body at all as it seems like you are apologizing for posting her pictures. But if you have to, you could have said that you love how her strong legs look in those shoes.

And if you think there are no fashion bloggers who are bigger (and I mean, REALLY bigger, not very skinny with muscular legs) then you are out of the loop. Check out:
http://www.youngfatandfabulous.com/
http://saksinthecity.blogspot.com/
http://fatshionable.com/

These are actually CURVY girls with great style – the kind of girls you should feature sometimes if you really want to feature more curvy girls.

Diversity is a beautiful thing.

I don't understand why it was necessary to comment on her shape, why could the photo not have been published without mentioning her 'sturdy' shape….it is such a shame she has been highlighted as different.

i'm head over heels for that deep/bright purple!

january, x
jessicajanuary.com

What a war in comments! :o
I really like the 2nd photo.

she looks great, what is the adress of her blog?
and, sorry, but is she curvy to you? she's just a normal-sized girl.

A lot of your readers, including myself, are reacting to the way you use the word 'curvier'. This word is usually used a euphemism for 'bigger', 'full figured' or even 'fat'. In that sense of the word I see absolutely nothing "curvy" about this girl. She is slim but in a healthy way rather than in a size zero model way.
But in the true sense of the word (curvy as in 'has curves' not necessarily meaning 'fat') then yes, I absolutely agree that she is surely curvier than all the runway models who have no curves whatsoever. She seems to be made up of some muscles rather than just skin and bones.
Unfortunately you do not only use the word 'curvier', but also 'bigger' and 'sturdy'.

While you do describe her as beautiful and you 'love that she's a bigger, curvier girl' those of us who are about the same size as Angelika suddenly see ourselves as 'big'. I have personally never been described as big or even curvy before. Now I suddenly feel self-concious about my size. I can only imagine what other women who actually are in fact "plus-size" must feel like after reading this. Like another reader commented: what on earth are girls like Beyonce and Kim Kardashian if this girl is to be considered curvy!? They must feel colossal compared to her.

Scott, I'm sure that you meant this post in a nice way as you do seem like a lovely person. I just don't think you realise what kind of effect this could have on a young girls confidence.

Thanks for this. She is beautiful. Especially the 2nd picture!

No worries about her size. Your comments come from a background of hundreds of super-thin girls viewed on runways. So, she is curvi-er. Anyway, I think your comments about her shoes warrant the mention of size/shape of legs. Thin legs don't balance those sturdy platforms… ;p

http://le-chic-boutique.blogspot.com

I have never commented before, though I love to see the images you post.
But – seriously? You think she's curvy? I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say, but I'm really saddened by what you wrote, and your view of her (and other women). Maybe that's how she is perceived in the fashion world, but that world is totally skewed.

Awesome pic! Love it.
But agree give us her blog! That's all!!!

The point Scott is trying to make, I think, is that the shoes look amazing on her, thanks to the stronger shape of her legs. This is a useful tip for most of us, I think.
So, to make his point (about her great fashion-sense), it was 'necessary to comment on her shape', right?

its good to see ordinary looking girls populating the fashion blogging scene. it would take this young lady, together with other less than perfect face/and/or/body -exemplars, the likes of the Garance Dore/Man Repeller/some of the recent MANGO comp bloggers etc, far more courage to display their fashion choices.

I love the pictures, but if she is considered to be a "bigger, curvier girl" I think that we have bigger issues here than her choice of shoes.

While I understand what you are trying to say, I think that by classifying her as "bigger" and "curvier," you are only perpetuating unrealistic and distorted body-type categories– use your influence to shape new ones! Please!

And by "bigger, curvier" you certainly meant "perfect," correct? ;) She's beautiful. I also love how she knows her silhouette!

After reading the post it is hard to concentrate on the actual ensemble instead of her body. Somehow the "the body's gorgeous/perfect/sexy" etc. -comments feel as disturbing as describing her as "big", which she in the street-relative sense is not. But then again fashion must have a different kind of relativity.

I'm a long time loyal reader of this site and I love it, but I"m afraid to say I agree with many commenters on this post. I find the words chosen to describe this obviously fit and slim woman inaccurate, rude and offensive. You wield enormous influence in the fashion world and on women's perception of what is or is not the norm. Please, choose your words when describing people's shapes and sizes as carefully as you choose your subjects.

if this is the standard for "bigger" "sturdy" or "curvy" i can't help but think of all of the beautiful, stylish, wonderful women i know who are MUCH bigger (in terms of height, fat, width, what have you) and how you are basically erasing them by saddling this really rather small woman as the face of "curvy girls" here. i know you've said in the past that fatter women ("plus size" if you prefer strange euphemisms) sometimes question your motives or decline to be photographed and that is ONE reason you've given that there are so few examples of larger women on your blog. however, if this is how you comment on a rather thin women, can you blame them? i can think of dozens of "curvy" women who would LOVE to be photographed for a street style blog, and who have some of the most eclectic, elegant, and generally awesome style.

just some things to think about.
1) this woman isn't "curvy"
2) it would be great if you WOULD represent some TRULY "curvy" women here, because we/they have great style, too! (and it's a shame that when fatter women ARE represented on style blogs, 99% of the time it's specifically FOR chubby women)
3) enough with the body policing.

Real women with real bodies who have an amazing sense of style is what I want to see more of. Please post more of these. And please link to her blog.

Love it! And I've got sturdy legs too, so now I'm going to see if I can find myself a pair of big chunky booties like hers. Fabulous.

Shape. Dig it.

Adore her! People, let's be serious: the media is saturated with images of super thin woman. I'm sure that's what Mr. Sartorialist means.

Hello,
I appreciate the effort…though i see you are getting enough flack. Keep shooting and making an effort towards an varied body type. There are alot more sir and i look forward to tomorrow's post

~Sincerely
Curvy

by "big," you mean "an inch larger than the size 0s you see at fashion week"? she's a blogger, not a model, she's a normal-looking person. please don't call her "big" or "curvy" (she's not curvy at all, anyway). this comment made me sad.

Hmm, it seems that a lot of readers are very sensitive about certain words used to describe the female body. I think "bigger", "curvier" and "sturdy" are all appropriate words to use in this context.

She is bigger than the norm of teeny-tiny skinnies that usually appear in fashion blogs.

Also, I think it is nice to think about legs as being "sturdy"–they hold up the entire body don't they? I think one can be described using these words and still be incredibly feminine and sexy :)

"bigger, curvier" ??? WOW…your view of "normal" must be incredibly skewed.

Come on people! Lighten up a bit!

Scott is sharing his delight about this woman's harmonious body. So what if he uses the word "curvy" or "sturdy"? Since when is "curvy" a derogatory term? Curves are SHAPES, they don't have anything to do with weight. Women can be fit and curvy.

On top of this, he is using comparatives, "bigger, curvier", so what is there to be so fussy about?

Legs like these do, in fact, stand out. They ARE sturdy and gorgeous. They ARE a signature and part of her style, and Scott has every right to comment on how she capitalizes on them.

He is not reinforcing any messed up societal crap, he's using descriptive vocabulary that should not be perceived as negative in the first place. What woman would like it better if her legs were defined as "muscular" (gosh!) rather than "curvy", which is simply more feminine.

Women who are clearly underweight appear on this blog occasionally and their weight goes unmentioned. THAT, to me, reinforces the notion that the "I starve myself" body is ok. And then again, it is not Scott's mandate to point out what could be the sign of an unhealthy lifestyle in a woman's body. He celebrates beauty and style. Which he just did. So yeah, nice post :)

she's beautiful! love the second picture!!

Woooow these hells are perfects!
xx
S

http://www.collagevintage.com

actually the jeans make her legs look shorter and chubbier than they really are and the shoes and the space between the shoes and her jeans reinforce this effect from a styling mishap.

apart from that, she is very lovely, very elegant.

aaaahhh, controversy over proper language to describe body type…well, let's all agree that she is beautiful and has a great body :)))

how is this girl curvy?

Big? Curvy? Haha I think you've been in the fashion world too long. Like everyone said, her body is amazing and I wish more models looked like her.

Scott

I know as a blogger you are careful to omit from comments anything that may be hurtful or derogatory about your subjects.
However, you seem to have forgotten that etiquette on this post. By no means is this lady "big." And if she were there are other ways to write about the style.
I wonder what people think about your figure and don't write about in their blogs.

Yes, it's the conjunction problem among others. "The sturdy but beautiful shape of her legs." Why but and not and. Words are not innocent. Scott is in the business – he knows what these words mean.

Go to her blog — she's very thin just not severely underweight.

if a duck is a duck, you call it a duck. scott did not write anything offensive here.

i am a woman with a very similar body type, if not more curvy, and find it hard it exhausting how badly everyone is taking your comments. i don't see what you said as offensive, if anything i think the fact that you said you loved it is being overlooked. it must be hard to comment on a woman's body type at all with all of us feeling constant personal evaluation.

great pic(s). could have left off these comments re her body.

"a daintier shoe would be overpowered (by her sturdy legs)"
seriously! OH MY GOD!!?!

"bigger? curvier? sturdy legs?" you must be kidding! She does have an amazing body, but it is by no means sturdy. She's what, a size 4, maybe 6 at the most? This is why girls fill their bodies with chemicals instead of healthy food b/c normal skinny is the new "sturdy." Not OK…

She hasn't got an extra ounce on her, that's curvy?? She's completely gorgeous, but I disagree with the assessment that she represents the "curvy" woman population.

Plus, anyone with a jawline like that could never be 'sturdy'. Jealous of those cheekbones…

Sorry but I agree with alot of the comments. Calling her legs "sturdy" is a put down. You could have used a better word such as "fit". I'm a little disappointed in you. I understand that she is bigger than the fashion norm but the way you described her was offensive and not really complimentary. I agree that you should just have put her photos without mention of her shape since it's not that unusual.

I really appreciate you bringing up "bigger" (though I don't think that's quite the right word for it. if anything you just mean unconventional) female body types. I've been thinking a lot lately that I need to find more bodacious role models for myself. As someone who is pretty thin, but very curvy (these characteristics are not exclusive of each other), I find it problematic that most of the photos in my inspiration folder are of a body type i'll never have–largely boyish and straight–and of clothes that will never hang properly on me. I, and many women like me, need to learn and appreciate the merits of our own body types and this is one step toward that goal. Thank you for photographing and posting a body type somewhat out of your–and the fashion world's–mold.

I love how people are so opinionated and take his words personally, and try to speak on behalf of this lovely young lady. Where's her voice in all of this?

Scott made his opinion, readers should be able to give theirs… but to get offended and judgmental? Breathe a little and calm the freak down.

I'm someone that doesn't like skinny or thin in a woman. Curvy yes, heavy no. Scott, the blog relies on real. The overly sensitive and defensive don't really get the point. Head down, keep going you've got it right. Paul M

Dear Scott,

First & foremost, love your blog & have followed you for years. Also have your book.

I think the issue isn't necessarly the words you use, rather that you use them at all. Maybe steer away from body descriptions & just comment on the proportion of legs/jeans/shoes…

To me, pointing out when someone is 'bigger' or 'curvy' reads a little insulting when you're not also pointing out when someone's not. Does that make sense?

Not a big deal. It's a touchy issue for sure, especially for a man. Still love you & The Sartorialist.

XOXO,
Kim

I really like the second picture. The color of her clothes match really well with the background. She's beautiful, much better than all the super skinny women in the press.. Does anybody the name of her Blog.

I love this word – "curvy". It tells about everything it should tell. I'm not women, who can use this word to describe herself, and I wish I could. I'm skinny and it's not so great as it may seem. And one more thing – why nobody tells about how skinny women with no curves are offended by unconscious man and other women… we aften have small brests and bottom which are called as flat or something like this… I don't like it. Why we can't use word "curvy" for someone who has curves, why we can't use word "big" or even "plump" when someone lokks like this in our eyes!

worded perfectly, sir.

What if you say sporty build as opposed to curvy? That could possibly be more appropriate for those not comfortable with the word curvy.

She looks great!

That girl is so pretty, well she's curvy but that makes her perfect.
Last day i was walking on the street and a modelling agent came to ask me if i wanted to formed part in. i get impressed (because i'm overwight) and they told me they're wanting different profiles. However, i don't believe them, i don't see overweight models.

From a curvy girl, kudos Scott!

i love the images here; they are full of important things like movement and emotion and life (in the foreground and often in the background, too) and the not-so-important things like clothing and accessories. love that your site allows me to see another love – how other people present themselves in the world.

i love the discussions, too … but why must a person's size be mentioned at all? why not let your beautiful photos and the subjects' own stylings speak for themselves? please and thanks.

New word to describe her: luscious
Look, personally I think there is great beauty in every single man or woman you capture here. Great work. No offense taken from this 'curvy' girl…

Curvy is the appropriate word for her. She is also fit and strong.

Unfortunately, the word curvy is now being misused. It has become a euphemism for FAT, and now FAT people refer to themselves as curvy in order to make themselves feel better. Sorry, but it's true.

I work in one of the few industries (opera) in which the public perception of greatness follows fatness. I hear women who are morbidly obese refer to themselves as curvy on a daily basis.

I think curvy ssuits her perfectly. I fail to understand why people are offended by this word since I think it is very nicely points out that a lady has "curves", not overweight, not huge amounts of fat, not any abnomality. Continuingly pointing out that she is "normal" shows another kind of fear in my opinion. I wouldn't choose any "normality" tags to define her but instead, I would also say that she's curvy and she has a beatiful shape. Big or not.

You are right – there is a debate around such words as 'curvy' but I don't think you are wrong to use this descriptive on Angelika.

Curvy is not pejorative – i find it rather flattering. People have been using the term as an euphemism for more full-figured women (and that's fine), but the original meaning still refers to a shapely, hour-glass figure, which is beautiful.

Thank you for posting these photos; of older women, of 'curvier' women, of tall waifs … You seem to appreciate women in all their shapes and I thank you for that.

I dont think this woman is curvy at all. I do admit she has "strong" or "thick" legs AND I am not a fan of her clunky wooden shoes but do admit they suit her style well.

http://www.Fashiontemerity.blogspot.com

to be honest, i loved this post, with the comments on her body type included. the people that are freaking out are extremely oversensitive. the fact that you commented on her body simply points out a certain aspect of her fashion that you liked and that actually be worn and applied by the average woman! keep up the good work, and ignore the people that are angry. great post.
xoxo

Slightly overweight but FOXY 50-year-old New Yorker here, to tell you that you can't win this one, Scott. "Curvy" has ceased to mean curvy and instead now it is some kind of confusing euphemism for overweight. I'm not actually curvy. I'm just a little portly. Curvy used to mean a wonderful disparity between bust measurement, waist measurement, and hip measurement, didn't it?

I felt I needed to out myself as overweight (not that I can hide it) to avoid being attacked by the forces of political correctness. But if you truly like yourself as you are, you don't need other people to use euphemisms for your characteristics.

Angelika looks great. She's what we call in Nebraska a big-boned gal. Also a euphemism, but a cute one, and well understood!

Love your blog and book,
especially those old Italian guys who look so great,
Kay

I think this post (and the comments that have resulted) is really interesting. It's nothing profound to say that there is a stigma attached to not only the fashion industry, but the whole pop culture, that skinny is what's attractive, and I think for young women in particular it creates a sense of insecurity and self consciousness about body image. This is nothing new. But I just wanted to say that, as someone who is "skinny" myself (5'9, size 2, naturally, always have been skinny) I look at women like this post and think "i wish my legs were like hers" because mine are shapeless sticks. I also am flat chested, so when I see a "curvy" woman, I'm envious. So, in a funny way, the proverbial shoe (and it's blue! I love it!) is on the other foot.

What's problematic is that you say that you love that she's bigger/curvier/sturdier/whatever, and yet post photos where this really isn't evident at all.

Is it because in reality the "curves – chest, stomach, hip – this woman has" are something that you see as less desirable/aesthetically pleasing?

Hi Scott, As a former fashion insider who is a real sturdy, curvy girl I understand what you were trying to express about Angelicka's body harmony in comparison to how the usual waifish fashion types achieve their style balance. I just don't recall you ever scrutinizing any of the men's bodies in this way with the language you used! The pen is mightier than the sword – considering you have such a huge influence, please wield it wisely. Thank you. G, Mtl, Qc

Maybe the modern way to speak about size is not to speak about it at all in cases like this. I think what I found offensive about this post was that you felt you needed to mention that these shoes were not overpowered by her curves (read: size). How about just saying how put together she looks, and how much you love her shoes? Why make it about proportion when you know people might take offense? If a skinny girl wore these shoes, I doubt you would have made a negative comment about how the shoes overpowered her slender legs. You probably just would have said the shoes were awesome. Right?

I think the thing that's arouse such reaction to this post is that you've never really used size terms before when talking about people's fashions. I haven't really noticed the use of other terms, such as smaller frame, thin legs, narrow shoulders, short waist… etc. You probably would have gotten a reaction as well.

So it's not that large size is a taboo, it's that size and body types in general don't normally feature in your posts.

Thank you for opening this conversation. It's great to know that you're thinking about your choice of words. Just like style, always be impeccable with your words.

I think it's great that you want all types of women, ages, body shapes to be represented in your pictures, but maybe the problem is just that you so clearly pointed out her "curves". Why not just post a picture of her and the picture can talk for itself? To me, curves are positive, but this girl really isn't. She's skinnier than avarage, at least in the real world!

People are upset by whatever is said. If you tell them it's good they won't be happy, if you tell them it's bad they won't be happy either…
I love the fact that you photograph different women with different body shapes and ages. Diversity is always great even more in these days. Hollywood should remain the only stereotype-supplier.
As a (successful) blogger I think people want you to explain your every thought and why you think so and that can be really difficult and time-consuming. You are a man with his opinion which we all should have and should be able to represent. Don't be put off by other peoples thoughts (which I am sure you aren't) and always express your own opinion!

All the best,
Emily

http://www.thestyleexplorer.blogspot.com/

This post would have been more meaningful if you had refrained from analyzing her body or comparing it to the bodies of other bloggers altogether. I don't think it's a matter of using words other than "bigger," " sturdy," or "curvy." The way she's written about makes her seem like a novelty on this blog, like you were doing something saintly by allowing her on the website. If you really want to show diversity, just show it; don't point it out. You don't point out how thin most of the girls in your posts are. Treat this woman as you would treat any other person you feature. For the record, I never would have left this comment if you hadn't included the update at the end. You're allowed to post anything you want and describe it in any way you want. But since you asked your readers for a different way to describe her, I decided to give my opinion. Thank you for being open to listening to our opinions. I apologize if I came across rude.

this girl is hot. as a "curvy" woman, yes i think i fit into that genre…i appreciate the diversity in images you share.

I think the word curvy is a perfect description of her body type. Curvy is a shape not a size. I am 5'8" and 125 lbs and consider myself curvy, my husband calls me curvy…when did curvy become a bad term? great bodies are not about size or weight they are about proportion and shape…when are people going to get this? i think it's a great post. wouldn't change a thing.

I wish words like "curvy" or "big" didn't have such a stigma that people use as an excuse to criticize. evidently body type does really influence the way styles look and work on different individuals. Criticism of using such words misses the point about your blog.
I'm similarly proportioned and I really love the idea of her shoes, especially in the second picture. When you have less delicate, more rounded legs, heels that are actually flattering for your entire figure can be hard to find- I find stilettos often look like I'm teetering on toothpicks. I'm excited that pumps are coming back into style, especially with more varied styles that can be worn in a wider scope of situations, outside of the work place.

Show just the pictures and the basic information without "assigning adjectives". Refer the viewer to the picture instead and let them find their own words to describe them.
What you are doing now may work in a direct communication. In a blog, you remain vulnerable to being hijacked by the "politically correct".
Good luck.
P.S. Although I've criticised you in the past, I'm just trying to help.

Wait what? Maybe I'm missing something, but no where in Scott's post does he insinuate that this girl is big. He states that she is curvier relative to the typical waif-y style fashionistas we're all used to seeing. Apparently "curvy" is a hot-button word, but his statement is still true and is not offensive in the slightest.

There's honestly probably not a 100% politically correct way to refer to a particular body shape without offending at least one person. It's kind of too bad in a way, because being objective and honest about fit, shape, scale, proportion and the merits of all of them in a fashion blog should be acceptable. Blogs are for opinions if nothing else and I think Scott's have class and taste in spades. Let's just leave it at at that and ease up on the semantics.

I don't find the word curvy offensive at all. I have a similar body type to Angelika and for me "curvy" is only seen as a compliment. She isn't normal, no one is. Everyone has a unique body type. That being said, let's see some more stylish, curvy women on this blog!

I think you've described her perfectly. When you wrote 'curvy' and I looked at your images, I knew exactly what you were describing. I think people are much too sensitive as of late. She is beautiful and stylish any way you look at it. As always, wonderful job.

curvy is the exact word you should use, to say that a girl is curvy is not insulting, its not saying than she is overweight or anything its simply saying that she has a shape, women are curvy by nature and that is a fact, even models can be curv such as the ones we see every year in the victoria secret runway and

P.S if we worry about "political correctness" all the time we wouldnt talk about anything

I'm not sure anything needs to be said about the young woman at all. When a "curve-less" girl is posted, there seems to be no need to label her as such. Just post the picture. The people out there who want you to post a girl with curves will make their own judgements. And that's the way to deal with it. Integrate more variety into your photos and then say nothing about it.

For the love of God, he is saying that she is bigger and curvier than people he usually photographs (because they are often stick thin models) not in the entire whole world! He never said she was representative of big girls or anything like that. People need to read carefully and understand what he is trying to say, not just take at face value!!

Uma graça!! Ela tem o corpo "curvy" das cariocas!! Pode sair de Milão diretamente para a praia de Ipanema sem fazer feio!!

Can we please talk about the Jeffrey Campbell "Lita" shoe she is wearing and that is in every fashion blog out there at the moment? LOVE THEM WANT THEM!!! xo

I love the fact that you're showcasing non-frail non-young women. However, just by drawing attention to the fact that her "sturdy" legs are flattered by her shoe choice, you are sort of labeling her as the "other" and drawing attention to her weight. How about just saying "look at how well her shoe choice works with her legs/pants" without mentioning her weight? I'm glad you're having a conversation about this. I stopped looking at fashion magazines and most fashion blogs a long time ago because they've lost all perspective on what is an attractive weight. I think models these days look disgusting, and I know they're a lot thinner than they were 20 years ago. I worry about their health every time I see a photo.

First off I love this blog and I love this girl's style!! I'm a shoe gal so those blue heels make me melt.

She is curvy i can see that and I agree that this is a correct statement. I'm curvy too, but the way she is. I curve. I'm not straight up and down and I'm not round. So yes I think curvy is the perfect way to describe her.

Scott,
I believe it is entirely possible to comment on her fashion sense without commenting on her size. Instead of using words like "sturdy, curvy" or as readers have suggested, "womanly, athletic" just avoid the use of descriptors and explain why her look works. Something about choosing the right heel proportional to your body type would probably work just fine. Although weight is a very sensitive topic, it is usually one-sided with a focus on descriptors for above average women. It is not very frequent that thin women;s legs are described as unsturdy. The use of any kind of descriptor always has the danger of taking away from the true meaning of the post.

i like the word 'curvy' – it's the same as fecundity – that for some very strange reason modern men seem to abhor. honestly i don't mind either of the terms applied to me.
sometimes i got fed up with the way language is being so meaninglessly censored, to a dgree where they lost their original vitality.
way to go CURVY girls! (and that doesn't mean fat)

"curvy" is fine. i agree, it isn't specific to weight, just shape. thank you for showing fashionable women and breaking from the routine shots of fashionable model-type figures

Unfortunately the term "curvy" has become a euphamism for "she's a bit on the heavy side". For the fashion industry, a size 6 is "curvy". But I think what has happened is that those in the industry now are a bit in a vacuum. All they see are severely thin women. I said it…..SEVERELY THIN. I NEVER read any blog post about a photo of a woman with jutting pelvic bones and knife like collar bones. Because in the industry, that's the norm. This girl is adorable and it never even occured to me that she looked curvy by any definition. She's a beautiful girl and the picture is beautiful. A piece of advice for men. Never tell your girlfriend she's sturdy or big. Only tell he she's curvy when you're wrapping your arms around her and then just whisper it in her ear. "Sturdy" and "Big" describe the UCLA football team, NOT a pretty girl!

I think the issue is that you don't have to say anything at all about their size. I mean, you don't say something like "anorexic" when talking about someone who is obviously "underweight" on your blog. You just post the photos and let the conversation go where it may. You didn't call Costanza or Lee R "old", etc. Just my opinion.

Your blog … please use whatever terms you want ! Can't please 'em all. Too much political correctness and euphemisms etc, I agree. Agree with you that "curvy" used to mean just that — with curves. Nowadays, who knows? I mean, at least in the US, now it's common to see a size XXS, or even XXXS? How crazy is that.There didn't even used to be a size 0.

Oooh, she looks really lovely! I really like the hood in the second picture and the different textures of black in her outfit.
I think that sometimes the problem behind the word "curvy" is that in some magazines and in culture, that means "fat," when I think you mean "she has boobs and hips and the like."
I personally don't have a problem with it, and I think that if you continue to use it, perhaps it will lose the "fat" connotation and just mean "she has curves" or something….
Did that make any sense at all?

windeater.blogspot.com

I looked at the photos and did not thought about her shape. I read the comment and thought that he (red: Scott) was right. I mean, I believe Scott referes to her body compared to the thin runway models. If you campare her to runaway models she is curvey but I agree with all you other readers that this girl looks stunning and is considered "normal".

I do not think Scott meant to hurt her (the blogger) or any other female readers by his comment. What so ever I understand how his comment is easy to misunderstand.

I am pretty sure we have seen heaps of "normal" people like this girl from several cities around the world photographed by the Sartorialist.

I do have to agree though: Her body shape should not have been mentioned. I do not see a reason to mention it. She looks like "any other healthy good look girl".

A gentleman never comments on a lady's size.

How about wording comments like this for example?

"I loved that she's a UK size 6-8 girl – whereas most of the other bloggers who you see in the the press and tend to represent the genre are usually around size 0-2.

The subtle thing she achieves so successfully in these two looks is to complement the shape of her legs with a strong shoe. A daintier shoe would be overpowered but these shoes create a beautiful harmony for the lower half of her body."

I'd be really happy to see more examples of great looks on different body shapes and size.

But honestly, when I started reading your description (and pictures hadn't uploaded yet) I was looking forward to seeing a gorgeous someone UK size 16-24.

Fantastic! It's nice to see someone with a similar figure to mine wearing someone completely different to my style, but I love it!

I don't see the problem with curvy, a common mistake people make with the word is that it means "thick". A woman can be curvy, and petite, or slim, and I think this girl is wonderfully curvy among other things.

And you are completely right, "normal" is a nonsense word when describing a person.

Love your work, thanks for posting so often!

xoxo
Solanah
vixenvintage.blogspot.com

I don't think you needed to comment on her shape. Just that she looks great! Thanks for the wonderful photos and the interesting conversation.

I was not offended by your choice of words. I don't know what other words you could use . . . non stick-figure? Silly.

Yeah, I think you really could have just let the photo speak for itself.

This woman is in no way big or curvy. She has a proportionate body size for her height. When speaking about curves, we generally think: Beyonce, Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez… It's not so much about being politically correct as just correct in general. You are right. We cannot see her curves, so why mention them? You could have simply said how much you love her shoes.

I understand wanting to represent women of all ages, ethnicities, and sizes, but why point out the fact that you are doing it? Let your blog speak for itself. It's great what you do. We love it. Beautiful fashions of the everyday woman. <3

I see two "problems" with the word curvy you've used:

1) This word seems to have been hijacked by (fashion?) media to mean a body type that isn't thin; it now implies that a person is fat without saying so directly (also, the people who are called curvy this way? Are usually not even obese).

2) The angle in both of your pictures doesn't actually show us her curves. Hence some people taking offence of the word when she's seemingly gazelle-like.

As a non-native speaker, it irritates me when words have other meanings than the literal ones I've learned at school; it is sometimes very confusing to read an article that is trying to be "hip."

And what word should/could you use instead of curvy? I've no idea. For me, curvy is a shape but apparently many people have assimilated the other meaning of the word and will have a fit when it's used wrongly – though in your case, you're actually using it right.

Also, from my POV, her legs actually do look normal compared to that of a model's.

The word curvy is acceptable. The words "sturdy" and "bigger" are not.
"Sturdy" makes me think of Russian farmers ladies, working in the field. This is not what this lady looks like.

What about just saying "This woman has great style, look what she is wearing" instead of congratulating yourself for showing more diversity – which really, you are not. When you feature women a size 12 or 14 and refrain from talking about their "curves", then you did something the fashion industry rarely manages to do today – showing real diversity.
Different body types should not be there to "make a point", they should simply be shown because they exist and they are beautiful.

'curvy' has taken on negative connotations in the last number of years but curves are what a womens body has: boobs, hips and a bum. the use of such skinny models has removed these curves from the high fashion world but we cant deny that mostly the clothes look better on a model going down the runway (if an unrealistic view of what they would look like on many other women). this womans body type is aspirational for many women of less slender proportions but she is representative of larger majority than a runway or print media model. it is great to see her on her and she has great style.

I would call her legs "shapely." Curvy is nice too, but bigger is kinda rude. Either way, thanks for showcasing a diverse array of body types and racial ethnicities.

I don't have problem with the use your word curvy, what I do have a problem with is the fact that your description of this woman is inaccurate; she is not curvy! In fact, she's skinny and slender. Perhaps you have a warped image idea of what is curvy after all these years in the fashion industry.

Until people accept women as we are–whatever our age and form–moving around the words isn't going to do anything but create new pejoratives. Fat, old, curvy, big, skinny, what have you are not dirty or insulting words, because having one or more of those traits is not criminal, mean, or immoral. Maybe it's not completely gentlemanly to assess a woman's body publicly, but there was nothing derogatory to anyone in your post. – Jean

She is quite simply SEXY. I love women who look like her. But I'm a 6'4" athletic guy…

There are no words to describe her that would leave everyone happy. I think that curvy is a good way to describe her, there's nothing wrong with being curvy. Your comment is that she is bigger than most of the bloggers seen in the press, although that is not to say that they aren't out there. It would be great to see more photographs of girls her size.

And I LOVE her shoes btw, I really want a pair.

http://lavie-amonavis.blogspot.com

These shoes are amazing! I'm from Brazil… and looking at this blog, I was thinking that every french girl is really skinny (like the women in another posts). When you walk on the streets of my country, you can see that almost every women are the way this girl is. Good to see that there are other kinds of women in France too. And better is to see that she can look as amazing as the other women. Excelent post! People are so protective, always wants to defend someone… Even if this person wasn't offended. Hugs

oh and it would be great to know the name of her blog, if you know.

http://lavie-amonavis.blogspot.com

Scott, you're absolutely right. She IS curvy!
The thing is, that shouldn't be a charged word. Bigger, curvier, etc. Those are just words to describe and compare relative shapes.
They only make people upset when people assign qualities and hierarchies to those words.
All of you who are so indignant that he said "curvy" and want to know what he would call you (so, you are probably bigger than her), well you're the ones creating this paradigm.
You assign a better value to "smaller," and then you desperately want to fit in to that category. So, you get angry when someone even smaller than you isn't considered small or whatever.
Now, if we all take a deep breath, and realize that we need to use words for descriptions, then maybe you will understand that the word was not an insult to you, the girl, or anyone else.

She's great, and I don't think the word curvy is out of place here, she has awesome musculature her legs are beautiful and shapely. What on earth is wrong with pointing that out and using the word curvy.

I am curvy, alot curvier than she is and I think it is a wonderful adjective to use. I appreciate my curves and I flaunt them. Some girls are beautiful but not soft, they are angular and have painfully beautiful lines.

If we can't use obvious tasteful words like curvy to describe someone's attributes then what can we use?
We are a sum of our parts, if we weren't no one would care how we dress them :)

Keep it up!

how about we just don't comment on her size at all? just let the pictures speak for themselves. this is a style blog, talk about the clothes.

I think it's not necessary to emphasize the size or curviness, let the pictures do the talking!:)

The reason you got such a "big" response is because you very rarely show women of all shapes. And since you love her form so much why shoot her from the side angle–the angle that makes most "curvy" women appear more slender than they actually are? You can show whoever you like but it smacks of hypocrisy when you claim to shoot women of all shapes & sizes. You do when it comes to men but not women.

Whoa man.
More real women, please.

I love this post. She is a gorgeous (um cheekbones much?!) and substantial woman. She is tall and fuller figured than many of the women so prominent in the fashion world. I understand the use of the word curvy. I use it all the time in reference to myself and others, and I would say it would be a fairly accurate description of this woman, particularly if we were we seeing her from the front. Many woman are curvy, even very thin women can have curves, as it does refer to SHAPE. I cannot tell you how happy it made me to see these beautiful photos of such a stunning and statuesque woman. I know there are many out there we just don't see as much of them. So thank you thank you thank you.

I think "curvy" is just fine. People describe me that way all the time; I'm 5'5" and weigh 140 lbs, and I've never taken offense. In fact, I'm flattered by the term. To me, it implies a certain sexiness.

Great post and I see no problem with your choice of words. It's hard to win a war of semantics because you'll never please everyone. People should be happy that an influential blogger such as yourself is willing to post photos of women of all sizes and ages at all!

Keep up the good work.

It's probably best to ask the girl. I know some plus-sized women who prefer to be called "fat" as a way to empower themselves and reclaim the word.

As you say, though, "curvy" is certainly an accepted body type, so I should think it acceptable.

In any case, thank you for this post!

A comment like that is the reason I hate the fashionindustry.

They think they represent diversity and beauty. But when it all comes down to reality most of "fashionpeople" have the same body.

In any other business that would just be a beautiful woman. In fashion she a beautiful "curvy" woman.

Beauty is not about size, race, sex. So why do people keep commenting it?

So tiering..

Rebecca

She is just stunning for who she is. The older women last week (is 'older' PC enough?) were inspirational and this woman is magnificent. Hands up to you for showing the wonderful diversity of the human form.

No need to mention size and 'sturdy' is not a compliment unless applied to table legs!

i don't think the problem is necessarily the specific words you chose. It's the fact that you decided to talk about her body at all. I think it would be better to represent women and men of all sizes without even writing about their shape. Simply showing the photograph says something greater about acceptance and beauty. None of us would have even remarked on her legs, etc if you didn't write about it. It also seems like you are trying to defend writing about her shape by saying we can't see all of her in the photo. Insinuating that she may be larger than we see. That is so missing the point!

I am all for talking about it. When did "big" become an insult? I'm big! I'm beautiful! I'm curvy! I love it! Go ahead and comment on my curves, my legs etc. And since most American ARE big (we're in the midst of an obesity epidemic folks) lets talk about what fashion works for a big woman! Hoorah! Don't let the politically correct police or the women too touchy about their figures to withstand an adjective hold ya' back.

I think she is so cool, she knows how to make her positure elegant by choosing high heels in bold colours!

Amazing photos

/Frederik
http://WWW.THEBLACKSPAGHETTI.BLOGSPOT.COM

Scott:

Rather than patting yourself on the back by pointing out that the woman in your photo is "a bigger, curvier girl", than other bloggers would post, why don't you just post the picture.

Why don't you make it the RULE that "curvy" women are shown on your blog with the same frequency as we occur in the population (ie., the majority).

Why don't you make a point of identifying – with every picture of a thin woman you post – that the person depicted is much skinnier than average?

In any case, the woman you depict can hardly be described as "bigger" – she's actually much thinner than the average North American woman.

Just a few points that came to my mind:
1. dressing is about picking the right clothes for your body, thus you cannot neglect talking about body size. It is funny how people object skinny, model looks, but when it comes to talking about other body types they consider it a tabu. We should be able to move beyond it and discuss what really matters: proportions.
2. I am not a native English speaker, but to me curvy means feminine. Without any value attached. The classic shape for man is the square, for woman the circle.

And Scott, keep commenting on the pictures. This is the only way to get substantian feedback and be able to engage in a discussion. Any topic needs a starting point (to be argued for or against).

P.S. I am happy the fashion week is over and we can see real people!

Thank you for the update. As I read through these comments I realized that each woman was comparing herself to the girl pictured and realized they would not want themselves referred to as 'sturdy' or 'big'. I do understand what you were trying to say and believe me, I am so pleased to see someone other than a size 2 featured on your blog. Maybe the word 'tall' would have been preferred to 'big'? Just a thought.

And I agree that she is curvy..that word has also come to mean something entirely different. As you stated, curvy is not a weight, it is a body type.

Bravo to another wonderful conversation via your blog!

Why do you need to post descriptors of her body type at all? Before reading your caption, I noticed her strong legs and butt – I didn't need you to point out that she was curvy, her body was right there for me to see.

Just as it is unnecessary for you to point out that an older subject is "old," you don't need to tell us when a subject is bigger or curvier or whatever. You can still feature them without worrying about describing them to us – let your photo say it, they are such good photos!

(I hope that doesn't come across as snide or critical – I genuinely appreciate your treatment of style respect for the everyday people who inhabit their own style. Your blog is a breath of fresh air!)

I think Liz commented it best: you wouldn't say anything about the bodies of those older women or any of the men in your photos. That's what's so offensive about this post.

I immediately thought what many others did when reading "curvy." The girl in the photos is, "Normal," not the other way around.

Ryan
http://www.fashables.com/w

i would say this girl has tasty body shape =)) love your blog

http://trivialinsanity-n.blogspot.com/

"Curvy" is not only a "play of words".
You, sir, don't call the rest of the models here "skinny".
So I guess "average" would do it for this particular woman.
You would not want anyone to call you.. "sturdy" or something of the kind.
Women are as susceptible to words describing size as men are.

All in all, I don't think AVERAGE women should be called curvy. Curvy IS the normal state of women. So why emphasize it – just because the fashion world (and I mean models and some fashion journalists/photographers/designers/stylists) is less curvy (less normal/average) than the rest? The other group of people I can think of are ballerinas, dancers and certain athletes. THE REST of women ARE curvy. That IS the normal state. When generalising (this is what notions are used for), one just has to choose to which 'box of persons' you want to be in/refer to: the fashion world or.. the world (Western world with enough nutrition. I myself am from Estonia and consider myself average. Though I wish I were skinnier. You might know the drill).

This all is by no means to demean your use of words. Just my thoughts on this topic.
I hope we all keep an open mind to people's opinions.
Thank you!

Couldn't have said it better myself, Scott.

Love the pictures, Love the word curvy…
She just looks like a woman, perfect!
Thanks!!

Bisou Anna

http://www.annachoice.blogspot.com

I think your post was sensitive, positive and well written. My daughter has sturdy, beautiful legs and I can't wait to show her the way this stunning girl shows hers off.

As ever, I am impressed by your field of vision.

The dialogue is good but it feels like there are boundaries and beliefs.

She is curvy. She is larger than many in fashion. Sample sizes are based in some way upon model's dimensions and while I cannot remember the proportions involved in being a "supermodel" .. it does involve longer legs proportionately.

Curvy is cool.

I think that discrimination and hurt feelings will exist as long as one if supposed to actually relate the word … heavy, skinny, curvy, flat, plump, anorexic, unhealthy weight, drawn appearance, radiant ..

Why can't these just be used without anything more at stake than specificity?

From a former anorexic.

People are such hypocrites…
My advice is to write whatever you feel like writing and stop reading people's comments.
Curvy is NOT an insult, it is a descriptive word just as petite, muscular, tall, short, etc.
To me, your description was perfectly fine, she IS a curvy tall woman, who knows how to work with her body's proportions.
She is not by far the norm, but I wish she was, especially with young role models as Beyonce, JLo. Adele and Kim Kardashian, to name a few. I bet they would not be offended by being called curvy, to them it would be a compliment to the bodies they work out so hard on.
Anyone offended by the word curvy is clearly insecure about their own body image and has bought into the notion that you have to be a stick in order to be considered beautiful.

Perhaps you should not make comments at all on the photos. Simply posting them is comment enough….by including photos of stylish people of all heights, sizes, and ages you have made your point.

Before I read the barrage of comments, my first thought was, ugh! If I had my photo taken and excitedly went to your site to see it posted, I would be quite embarrassed to see my size being addressed—irregardless of what it is, smaller or bigger or average! Why does it need to be? Simply comment on her style—that is the focus, no?

And I agree with someone's comment that saying "sturdy BUT beautiful" isn't helping convey the message you seem to be trying to.

I agree with what The Blonde Mule wrote above: "I think the issue isn't necessarly the words you use, rather that you use them at all. Maybe steer away from body descriptions & just comment on the proportion of legs/jeans/shoes."

But I thank you for choosing not to use "normal" to describe only one female body type. I also hate the term "real woman" — as if *any* woman is not a real woman.

The "curvy" term bothers me because I am 5'3, 108 pounds, AND curvy. I have breasts and hips; I am not the shape of a ruler even though I have a small frame. I am also healthy — I eat well and exercise a lot. (I say this in anticipation of being dismissed as "anorexic".)

Clearly you inadvertently waded into an issue that has a great deal of significance to women. Words can invalidate the femininity of some women ("real" vs. "not real") and create one type of female body as a universal standard ("normal").

The whole issue is so sad to me. It never comes up in response to your photos of men. It highlights the consequences of society's objectification of women's bodies — our value is determined by others' assessments of our bodies and so that assessment MATTERS.

Thank you for taking this issue seriously. I don't know if there is an answer or word that will work for everyone, but I appreciate your opening this discussion.

Scott, you poor man, never ever post anything without showing it to Garance first. Trust me :D

But otherwise all I can say is that the pictures are perfect as always. I hope these comments won't discourage you in any way from your goal to photograph all kinds of women. Women are very insecure about themselves, which has nothing to do with you or your work as a street photographer.

Hope to see new pictures from you soon.

With warm regards, Mila from Finland

Hello Scot,
I just wanted to say that the "Update" part of this post sums it all and does it with power – it is really good that you are striving to represent the variety of shapes and looks complementing them, and the only thing I could ask you is to do it even more often. One could maybe describe it as "natural"… but only in the sense that it is one of the many natural shapes you can find when, well, simply observing the world around you. I don't want to dive into healthy/unhealthy issues and so on, but, being a part of the "curvier" population, it is only since a few years that I've started to realise there was really nothing wrong with the term and to even appreciate it. Otherwise, would it be ok if we started to call someone naturally slim, athletic or whatever as "abnormal"? I don't think so. In the end it's the creative variety that matters.

Monika

so if we go by the BMI, body mass index, there is underweight (which would mean at 6ft @ 154lbs), healthy weight (6ft upto 195lbs), overweight (6ft up to 242lbs) and then obese (which would be 6ft starting at 243 – there's a start point for everything).
so, underweight, healthy weight, overweight and obese.
being built similarly to the woman in the green skirt, i know that i fall inside of healthy weight (6ft @175lbs). however, i suppose that if in a daily work environment one is surrounded by women who are underweight for their work and this is a "norm" in the workplace/ industry then everything else can become relative.

*tallgirl

"She's not curvy, she has a great body!!!"

Lord, people make me sick. Since when has the word curvy implied an undesirable body? :(

I think the words "average" or "normal" aren't very descriptive, and honestly more offensive to me as a truly curvy woman. I'd take "curvy" over "average" any day, and I don't think I'm the minority, especially in a country where the calculated average is actually overweight, and quite frankly, often an unhealthy condition.

I agree, Scott, with your use of the word "curvy." Sturdy is borderline; rather like describing a man's "childish" features or "rotund" figure, it would be taken by most women to be offensive even if it is an apt description.

It isn't the words you used; it is that the quality you wanted to point out about this woman's legs is considered undesirable by most women and those possessing typical (curvy but thin) or fashion-derived (androgynous/underweight) aesthetics. Good luck resolving that issue.

Re: "Curvy"
I believe due to the emphasis that magazines/ runways/the fashion industry in general have put on the word "curvy" has created the opposite effect that the industry originally intended, which was to highlight other body types larger than the traditional "waif". However, I really think that the public has run with this and jumped all over it, whereas now women read "curvy" and instantly think "fat", which is NOT the case. It's almost as if women today are playing right into another "media" trap by thinking this way because they've only seen curvy to describe plus-size models or women whom the media regards as "bigger", which is a shame because 'curvy' can mean so many beautiful things. As someone who is 5'2" and 94 pounds I most certainly consider myself curvy. I have a butt, shapely legs from years of gymnastics, and larger breasts than most of my female peers. So women, STOP BEING OFFENDED BY "CURVY", there's nothing wrong with it! and Scott, Bravo.

Perhaps the issue is one of proportion: shoe size relative to length and diameter of leg. I've seen shoes like that on "skinny" legs and the proportions are just off.

I LOVE that you describe your photos and explain where the balance and flare comes from. I often look at photos of well-dressed women and try to picture myself in those outfits. I'm not a fashion expert, and it's really cool to read this kind of perspective.
Now, having said that, this is exactly why you should be allowed to say curvy or sturdy or whatever you see there.
When you said that, I realized that my skinny legs wouldn't have that same cute effect with big chunky shoes. That's what choosing trends is all about. Choosing the right combinations for your body.
What will happen if we aren't allowed to talk about what we see anymore?
Sturdy is exactly the effect her legs in those shoes give. And it's fantastic! My legs would just look bizarre, like toothpicks in clogs.
Why can't he point that out?
He always comments on proportions and clothes, but only gets slammed if he uses words that people are obsessed with, like bigger or curvy.

Hi Scott,
I'm a longtime fan as everyone above. Any time a person talks about a woman's body, especially if you are a man, you're going to come under fire. Keep doing what you are doing. You are in an industry that consists of individuals who are not exactly mainstream. Thin is in in fashion. It's a fact. There are continually small steps forward and backward. As a 45 year old, average size, average looking woman who is into visual aesthetics of many types, I enjoy your blog daily and have especially enjoyed the recent posts of older fashionistas. The fact that you are posting even one photo of someone who is not 19 and stick-thin, is a plus. Besides: I see real people every day on public transportation. I read this blog to get away from it all for a few minutes during a long work day. -DM

oh god, no more litas. no more litas. no more litas. they are the most over-saturated shoe. most people probably don't know that they were a blatant COPY of a charles anastase shoe. ugh. herd mentality exhibited right here.

Oh dear Scot looks like you have got yourself in a pickle! A word of advice "don't comment on female size" just purely comment on how good they look! My wife is a UK size 10 and to me she is beautiful stylish and extremely attractive but if you snapped her I wonder how you would discribe her!
Ciao
T.T.T.

Yes. Finally a girl who isn't 5 pounds soaking wet!

http://www.luluadores.com

I really don't see what the fuss is. The words "bigger" and "curvier" are being used in relative terms by comparing this young lady to other bloggers out there, as was stated. I didn't read it as a negative comparison at all.

As for Angelika, I agree that she has lovely, shapely legs, which are complemented by her choice in shoes.

If curvy is what she is, call her curvy. She looks fantastic. You knew it. We know it. Let's not get caught up in the words.

I agree completely with you Scott. I am 125 lbs, 5'7 and curvy. "curvy" defines the lines of my body not my weight or height.

The comments are flying in :-) Great topic Mr. Sartorialist! I love the picture and I'm glad to finally see a healthy fashionably lady! 'Healthy'…let's put it that way instead of 'curvy'? Anyway, would love to read her blog as well.

Like this kind of conversations!

http://www.mas-tuvu.blogspot.com

I think that a big reason that this has come up is because as you stated above in your UPDATE these angles aren't showing a great deal of the "curviness" that you're referring to.
When reading this post I too thought "She's curvy?" and had to scroll back up to look at the pics again.
Other times when you have referred to specific details you are pretty good at showcasing them. In this case you are referring to a "curvy" girl without showing off any of those curves. Lets celebrate them and show them off!

Scott,

It's obvious that the intentions were pure. I don't agree that the word curvy needs to be replaced with normal. If anything the hoopla is over the fact that neither of these photos reveal a curvy or thick body type, and so noting her body seems gratuitous. If anything pointing out her size doesn't serve as a compliment but just underscores the industry standards that anything over a size 0 is seen as being plus sized.

I like your site because you highlight the beauty in the unexpected. Again, your intentions were pure, but if you're going to show a curvy girl, give us a CURVY GIRL, if you're going to show a plus sized woman, show a PLUS SIZED woman. Or at least a more demonstrative photo. But when you show someone with slightly thicker calves and call her curvy and atypical of most female bloggers, then we will be caught up in word play.

Keep up the good work (seriously, we all flub sometimes).

Beyond any debate of curvy or not, I find it sad that beyond the analysis of her sartorial choices (a given considering the blog!) her body is even up for discussion in this fashion – as if she's a slab of meat, a piece of art, or somewhere in between. Do men's bodies ever get dissected in this manner, to this degree? No.

I think I get that this was meant to be a celebration of her "curvy" (?!) figure, but the body analysis and marginalization is sadly predictable… and, as usual, carries with it another tired round of privileged reductivism.

Scott– There is nothing wrong with "CURVEY". Hang tough!

Anything that isn't malnourished in the fashion industry is called 'curvy' – which we all know is a euphemism for 'fat'. This is something the industry seriously needs to come to terms with, and your gaffe was representative of this. People get outraged over this for a reason.

I love your blog and the word curvy is fine. You can't please everyone! The woman in these two photos is so beautiful.. please let us know her blog..

XOXO
S

I think your intent is absolutely right and enhances the validity of your blog.

As a guy, I feel your pain on word choice. To be fair, you did say "curvier" and indeed she is. I suppose "sturdy" is debatable. Either way, she's a beautiful woman and your compositions of her are worth sharing. So are your comments.

Keep going.

P.S. Does my butt look big in these jeans?

She is absolutely gorgeous. I love how these shoes on her don't look as chunky as on other girls!

I like this post because finally I can see the real street style, not only models and people who means "everything" for fashion world :)

Before I say this, I love your blog, style, and sensibility. But I think this post and the reaction to it goes back to a slow, steady shift I've seen in the blog over the years… from real people and street style to a very select group of– generally– wealthy, connected, white, thin fashion types.

I understand that you don't want to "lose the potential power of this post by being caught up in wordplay," but language has incredible power to shape reality. You are othering her (defining her as abnormal) by discussing her body at length while posting a constant stream of photos of extremely skinny women without commentary. I see where you're going with this and appreciate it… but it's frustrating, because you're one of those bloggers who represents the genre in a narrow way! This smacks of tokenism.

As a "curvy girl", I would say that you could post a picture of this woman and not make a special effort to comment on her body shape like it's some kind of fucking amazing phenomenon to see a fashionable woman of "a certain size".

I love the pictures and the girl's style! I for one don't feel that the word "curvy" has a negative connotation, it's just descriptive of a certain body type. I agree with you on the normality issue, it's difficult to categorize what is normal and what not because body sizes evolve over time. For example when my dad was in high school boys over 6 ft tall were scarce, nowadays they are everywhere and could be considered the standard height. There is no such thing as a normal body type, just what others perceive as being representative or not.

I would also love to have a look at her blog. Considering her level of style, it should definitely be interesting!

http://fashionthroughtravel.blogspot.com/

I like the word curvy, please dont divorce that word:). You are embracing the shape without judging it. When I read your blog, I wanted to be that woman on the picture. Nobody wants to be normal.

Is it ironic that i feel offended when ppl overreact (i.e. take offence at this type of thing) at the use of words like "curvy"?
I´m curvy, and I think I´m pretty sexy.

About the picture: the girl has a pretty nice… emmm… how does one say it elegantly? derriere? (thats what my 3rd grade gym teacher called it)… and nice legs…
So she is curvy and statuesque. At least what I consider curvy and statuesque.

Honestly, in these pics we can't see the rest of her curves because of the clothes, we are just going to have to take the word of the one person that was there, no?

Peace,
Aly

shoooooooooooes

I don't know, i'm not very articulate when it comes to this but i wouldn't call her "curvy" per-say, but i get where you're coming from. To me, she has more of a "womanly, curvaceous, or shapley" figure. I with there were better words i could use but that's what comes to mind. People are so used to the size zero girls being the norm, that when someone is actually featured who isn't necessarily a size 0 or 2, people forget that girls like that still exist and don't know how to label them. I also think what's annoying people is the different connotations that are associated with the word curvy.To you it may mean a good thing, a compliment even, but to most girls like myself it's not necessarily a good thing.

I don't know but that's all i have to say for my first time commenting on here :)

If people complain about "curvy", it is their issue if they find that negative, in wich world are going to live if we can't say curvy. In fact I love the fact that you were writing about your picture which you don't do very often. Curves is what makes the body of a woman Beautiful and different from mens.

I'm not arguing if she's curvy or not, because I've seen thin women with some nice curves, and bigger women with no curves at all. I know it can be frustrating trying to photograph "bigger" women because most of them will refuse it. Even though they're super stylish and worth to be seen here. I know what I'm talking about.
I think this girl has great style and there's no need to put a label on her. She's just a beautiful woman, in my opinion.

I'm curvy and I am bigger than this beautiful woman and find no offense in your description. I appreciate this post for so many reasons and love to see that size does not make you stylish, confidence does. This woman, like so many others I see on your blog, is confident which makes her; chic, sexy and stylish. Thank you for sharing. I also agree with you about the shoes. Shoes like this are not for everyone. I've always described it from the stand point of scale. This shoe is in scale with her over all height, weight, build or whatever and makes her rock the shoe.

Now, if anyone can tell me where she got the jeans in the first photo I would love it.

Thanks!

Curvy, normal, whatever… I'd love to have her body!
xo

Bravo for the wordplay comment. I agree, let's not lose the forest for the trees. While choosing the precise words for issues is important and can be useful, in the end that can be even more limiting. And yes, curvy is a body shape, not a judgment on normality.

Also, although I fully respect that boy-shaped/thin is its own body type and to be respected, it is difficult sometimes to see only that contingent represented in bloggers (well and fashion in general … but let's not get into that). Bloggers are great because they are 'real people' and so I love to see diversity in them.

Is this girl fat? No. She's probably even less "curvy" than a lot of women. But she is something different than say Rumi, who is also great. And that's the important part, no matter how you label it.

I admit I was taken back by the "bigger" comment. I don't mind curvy, I know I'm curvy and not rail thin, which I don't mind. But seeing her described as "bigger" makes me cringe. I'm guessing that when someone is in the fashion world your view of what is actually normal gets skewed a bit. I agree with the person who said why does her size need to be mentioned at all? It's not like she's morbidly obese. If it wasn't mentioned I probably wouldn't have thought twice about it.

I admire the power of your images but a lot less the power of your words. After all, it would be highly unusual to have equal talents in both categories!
Today is the best illustration of my point. The photographs spoke for themselves. The only thing you achieved by adding your comment was to take the focus off what you were trying to show and start an unnecessary bickering. Just my 2 cents. It's your blog and you can obviously do as you wish.

I will admit, at first I was a little offended by your use of the term "curvy" to describe this girl…mostly because when I looked at the picture, I felt my body looks almost exactly like this girl's, and at at size 2, I would never use that term to describe myself. After reading your comment, I do understand your use of the term much better and it definitely makes sense. I feel that most people read "curvy" as code for chubby or even overweight in the world of fashion. This may not be the intent, but it is certainly the interpretation many have. I'm sure many who had a negative reaction to your use of the term identified with this girl's body more than they do with the typical conception of a model's figure. I suppose the key is looking at the term more objectively.

Thanks for asking for assistance on your word usage.

I love the pictures you took – that girl is stunning! I absolutely see what you were talking about with her bold shoe choice (points for working in them, too!). I'm almost positive (having not been there myself) that the subject of your photos was, in fact, curvy. In that she possesses gorgeous hips that extend in a pleasing curve past her waist. That her legs have well formed lines of muscle – that curve, and that her booty is banging (you can totally tell from that second pic)! These are all classic definitions of a curvy woman. So, using that measure, you were not wrong to use that word. Your photos may not have been from an angle that showcased the very curves you were drawn to.

However (ah, the caveat), writers about and followers of fashion tend to use the word 'curvy' to be polite about PLUS – a woman of much larger proportions (I'd use LUSH to describe my ample frame! It just sounds decadent and yummy). Hence – your use here triggering this response. In the eyes of many you have taken a striking woman and labeled her as LARGE & in fashion that is BAD. It also, makes those of us even more um…curvy…balk. The disconnect between what is shown to be fashionable in magazines and what we, as everyday consumers, think of as normal if vast. Your comments on her 'sturdy' legs and 'bigger' frame bring that disconnect into sharp focus.

she looks AMAZING!

You asked for feedback on your use of the word 'curvy' to describe this blogger. I think that the strong reaction may be due to the fact that, in North America, at least, the term has come to be synonymous with 'over-weight' or 'plus-sized', which this young woman clearly is not. It is unfortunate that the meaning of the word has become so misused, but there it is.

I do understand your argument against using the term 'normal', because 'normal' is completely subjective. 'Average' might be a better term, because it can actually be backed up by data. However, in North America this young woman would probably actually fall below what is technically 'average'. And then, the average size in Europe, and other parts of the world, probably differs from that in North America, so for a blog with International readership, even this could be problematic.

It is a touchy issue, to be sure. As for me, I'm not sure why we have to have terms for different sorts of beauty, or why we feel the need to sort and label women in such a manner. You could have made a post discussing the fact that this young woman dressed her body well, without having to label it at all, in my humble opinion.

Ok, I am 5'3, 140 pounds, 32E and hips to go along with it. I am curvy? YES! How would I like to be described? Maybe womanly? I don't have a problem with curvy, even voluptuous. People need to stop worrying about other peoples words and appreciate their bodies and all of its capabilities! BUT like The Fancy Teacup says, maybe you should just skip the words all together-but keep those pics coming! I love to see fashion on a woman who has a womanly figure!

Thank you so much. She is beautiful. Love seeing a blog that doesn't make me want to be one size, but rather appreciate that people are all sizes.

I love these pics, and I love that she's not emaciated, but instead of calling her "bigger, curvier", couldn't you just have said "I love this blogger because she doesn't seem to feel the need to look like a model herself" or "she's not emaciated". That's rare enough in itself.

"Help me describe this young lady without using the word "normal," but in a way that addresses her body size and still references my point about the size of her legs relative to her shoes."

Don't. Don't mention her size at all. Appreciate her outfit, appreciate her style, don't comment on her figure since there is absolutely no need for you to do so. Why does it matter?
You frequently post pictures of very thin women without any commentary on their weight, so why would you comment on this girl? That, to me, reinforces the notion that she is in some way "abnormal" for looking healthy.
If you MUST say something, use "athletic" or "strong." Not "sturdy" (which is especially offensive here because you contrast it with "dainty" shoes).
If readers request you to post pictures of curvier girls, do so. I fail to see why you feel the need to provide commentary? If you post a picture of a stylish, slightly fuller woman people will come to the conclusion that she is beautiful by themselves, there is no need for you to point it out.

I love your blog, but I've noticed that I love it more when you just post pictures without the blurbs of writing.

Turn the tables for a second and re-write your above post with a portly man. Perhaps a man with a middle-aged belly and a bit of a chin.

"I am proud to be a blog that is showing men of different sizes."

It would just sound odd and weird to make a comment like that. Because men's bodies aren't discussed and scrutinised like females are.

How about you just post pictures of well dressed people, instead of commenting on their body shapes?

I would say she is pear shaped because her bottom half is bigger than her top half. I have a body shape like that, and i wish my body was more proportional.
shes definitely not fat, and i guess he wider hips and thicker legs would instantly allow commentators to describe her has curvy.

but from her outfits its hard to tell if she has large breasts, which would complete our definition of curvy. she certainly doesn't dress 'curvy sexy' no wrap or tube dresses, instead shes opted from a similar wardrobe to that of Garances. 'cool, chic, a little masculine' … retro, palefaced and bordering on bohemian…
itd be nice to see what she wears when she wants to be all dolled up.
cheers

I love her legs. She's gorgeous!

The fact that we even have to have a discussion about weight- how to quantify it, what is "normal", what is "curvy"- is the real issue. A "good" weight is one that is medically healthy for your height and age. End of discussion. Just don't point it out. As you said, you posted photographs of elderly women- which is lovely because real style is timeless- but you never had to make a direct comment on their age to let us know they were old. Just like fashion/style/beauty be what is it.

http://www.youngfatandfabulous.com/ this blog may give you an idea as to what curvy is in the real world..this woman you have described as "curvy" is not skinny size 0-2..but is in no way more than size 4.

I don't even think an explanation is warranted of you. You explained yourself well in your initial post saying, she was curvier than most of the other women in the fashion blogging genre. You clearly weren't generalizing about the rest of Western society. And there is nothing wrong with the word curvy, it's a great description. I'm 5'0 108 lbs and consider myself curvy.

Keep doing what you're doing! I'm minoring in Women's Studies so I am sensitive to these type of subjects. There are very few people in the "mainstream" that are able to combine fashion and a good representation of women the way you do. The posts of the beautiful older women was genius.

Rock on!

I think that if we are looking for a "modern" way to speak about size than we are missing the point of what is actually modern. To say this girl is not like most "idustry girls" of course may be something true but not truthful. This girl may be "curvy" but would you call a skinny girl skinny? No, she would just be a girl who is interesting to us because of the way she has presented herself. Though this girl is not -skinny, it is not her size that make her stand out but the way in which she has dressed her own self. To speak about things then, in a modern way would be not to label a body but to speak about whatever it is that makes a person distinct as an individual. What makes a person truly attractive is not a matter of standards; size, age, race, etc. Instead it is a matter of personality, of something internal expressed externally in our material world. What is most intersting about this post is that it reveals how though we have tried, we are still working through our inherited past which has the tendency to discriminate and standardize which is the biggest threat to our creative and expressive drives. If we are looking for a "modern" way it should be a way of many not one and some.

There's nothing wrong with 'curvy', to me, it does not denote weight, it represents a shape. She has fabulous shape and that is sometimes hard to find in the fashion idustry. Kudos sir, love it

am I the only one who agrees with Scott?

she is indeed curvier than most bloggers or fashion models.

there is no doubt that she looks gorgeous and indeed "normal", but her legs ARE curvy. it's a spot on description. Wish everyone would lighten up a bit.

I agree with The Sart! By saying this girls is bigger and curvier than most of the other bloggers he is right on the money…
It has nothing to do with "normal" and by posting her, he is already saying that she looks great. Chill out!

Why mention the weight/size/curviness at all? What is your point? Why not let beauty be beauty and fashion be fashion?

This lady IS curvy. Curvy means having curves and yes, this girl HAS them. And this is GOOD.

and I am definitely larger than she is and no, curvy does not mean BMI 35+, honestly.

I LOVE being called curvy, but in no way I can ever be called fat. or skinny, for that matter.

so, again. curvy is not an euphemism for fat. curvy is curvy and fat is fat. curvy is this girl compared to the old lady in cream fur coat some posts ago – she is slim, if not skinny. curvy is not Oprah – she is overweight.

wow, more than 400 comments…I can't get through them all so I'll just say what I have to say and risk being redundant.

My problem is that from these photos I really can't agree that she's a bigger/curvier female. I'd guess she's a size 6 or 8? At most? She does look very normal/average to me, so I don't think her size even needs to be mentioned. She doesn't need a term. I think that's where the root of my problem is – that you're so skewed with the model thin look that you think this woman's size even needs to be addressed in the first place.

Regarding your update, I must confess that I find it problematic that you take issue with the word "normal" (though I agree wholeheartedly with your reasons) but were content to use the words "Bigger" and "curvier" which also point to a perceived body norm.

I think, if you are looking for adjectives, thinking in terms of "how big must one's curves be to be to be curvy" introduces a troubling dichotomy – either you are a rail or you are curvy. I personally loathe the term curvy due to its general abuse: I do think it has become a euphemism for fat.

This girl's legs appear muscular, in my opinion, but if this is not the case, I think the ownness is on the photographer (particularly when you are going to make a deliberate comment regarding your perception) to ensure your photos capture accurately that perception.

a) as said, if you would continue on trying to publish pictures of varied sized and curves, everyone will be happy. Leave the same famous milaneese ladies alone and focus on the diversity and visible minorities (you don't show much of them; even this taller/bigger girl is still blonde and white)

b) also indeed, not needed to say she is curvier (since she isnt curvy. Seriously the medium american woman size is 12). Just saying she isn't the typical fashionista is enough

c) saying there is no proper defenition for normal is a false debate. Normal is the statistical majority, that's all. And normal women look more like Oprah than the girls you photograph.

Curvy is not an insult, it's a complement. I'm 'curvy', and I love it. On a scale?
Stick-Audrey- Skinny-Athletic-Grace.K-Curvy-Marilyn-Voluptous.
We are all fabulous. Maybe we need a graphic, like a brand map, with a horizontal & vertical axis to create a approved description!

I think the issue here is that in many circles, 'curvy' has come to be a euphemism for 'large' or even overweight, regardless of who the adjective is being applied to and whether or not they are actually above, below, or of 'average' height/weight proportions. this woman appears to be stylish, attractive, and to the excitement of many – not skinny – which makes those of us that are of average dress sizes, not model sizes, feel that we too can be seen as stylish, even if we can't wear model sizes. perhaps in referring to her as 'curvy,' which was meant as a complement and observation, some people may have misread your comment as being a codeword for 'heavy' or 'overweight,' which this woman certainly is not. i don't have a suggestion for how to phrase similar observations in the future, as I don't see anything wrong with your description and I would be quite flattered if I had received such a comment from you.

I'm with the folks who say say nothing. Don't call it anything. The fact that you post a picture on your blog tells us you "like" the look. Or something about the look.

I love this post and thank you for it! Some fashion mags have taken curvy to mean plus-sized. However as a size 6 curvy girl, I say let's take back curvy to mean what it is supposed to mean: that the lines of the body are more rounded than straight!

well, seem to me the whole issue of defining size is more war of words rather then addressing the essence.

we are talking about images taken of real life women casually seen out there in whatever life's situation. models on runway and in editorials are carefully chosen few individuals to present the concept clothing on the concept body, so to say.

by concept body i mean deliberate preference in pronounced linear appearance of the model's body. in other words in means an absence of curves and absence of character and life experience in the features. they are detracting factors on the runway.

really, we are looking at young teenagers who are selling designer's concept to an age group that more often then not can be their mothers. in any case i have hard time understanding the desire to apply presentational rule of industry to real life wearer. as a result what we have is self-imposed demand to look like a model.

an artificial opposition of runway demands versus real life in actuality serves no benefit to anyone. in my view it is self imposed confusion deriving from desire to look one's best.

have anyone bothered to access how it is actually working for the older population looking model thin? in my opinion an older or maturing, if you will, person who is too thin just look frail in real life. pictured girl is actually looking healthy. apparently she is well adjusted individual who is comfortable with her own image and have no inclination to resemble photoshoped images in mags.

there shouldn't be a single standard for non runway populace since individual body characteristics are so widely varied. that's the heart of the conflict, i think. the arsenal of styling approaches is so minutely developed it can accommodate any body shape and help to create a harmonious look at any age. this blog is a proof of it.

if the words are such culprit why we are not using words like "healthy", "actual", "real", "present", "current"? does it have to be a flattering overtone implied by default? why foster unease? the word "curvy" in my opinion is actually fostering that unease.

this blog is doing an excellent job of prodding the thought process behind the issues that are made visible though style.

many thanks.

ruski boy in america.

The magic in your images, in this blog, is in the strength of the individual. Without vast amounts of text the images stand alone. You celebrate the strong singular within the collective, but you do it usually without words. Because you understand that we can make our own way to the conclusion, that we can simply be us.

lighten up people :)

She looks amazing in the shoes.
My Heart Blogged

I find the fact that you point out her body shape irritating. it is a little bit like saying "look, she's curvy. but we like her ANYWAY." Is that the message you want to deliver?

also, refering to her as "bigger girl" is simply wrong. hell, she may not be a size zero, but that does not make her a "bigger girl" – come on!

a better way to decribe her legs would be "toned".

all the best, emma

Unfortunately, in a culture that doesn't value a wide range of body sizes, we don't have a healthy and non-inflamatory vocabulary to discuss any variance in size- call someone thin, skinny, normal, sturdy, curvy, or fat and there will be a bit of uproar, because we usually hear those words negatively, not positively (as you're so wonderfully attempting).

If you're interested in a little reading, there are awesome books out right now about reclaiming healthy language around body size. Fat Studies (The Fat Studies Reader, specifically) deals not only with fat but with all body size difference. It's totally enlightening and makes one wince less often and think more openly when discussing how to discuss body sizes and their inherent beauty.

I thought your post was great. And I'm FAT.

Scott,

You asked your readers what word you should have used to describe Angelika Blick, since "curvy" does not fit the bill. So far, I'm not sure that anyone has answered your question.

You could call her fit, athletic, muscular, toned, or gorgeous.

The reason why people are balking at your use of the word "curvy" is because at this point, in our cultural lexicon, "curvy" does not refer to a body like Christie Brinkley's. It now means something different. It is referring to a body type that is often called voluptuous, or in some cases, is unfortunately referred to as heavy or chubby or fat.

The other reason why people are balking at your choice of words is because your choice is words is informed by a skewed perspective that 99% of people living on this planet cannot relate to. It is the perspective of the fashion world. In the fashion world, an American size zero is average and anything larger, whether it is a 4 or a 14, is "big". But you are a street photographer. I know that you attend a lot of fashion events and therefore your camera passes over a great deal of models and girls who aspire to look like those models. But because you are, essentially, a street photographer and strive to capture style on the street, please understand that many of your readers wish that you could look at size the way most people walking down an urban street do, so that we do not feel alienated by your blog.

You might be wondering how to shift your perspective, so that your idea of what is thin and what is average and what is "big" is more reflective of what your readership can understand. I think that the only way to do this is to take and post pictures of fashion that you see on the street, truly looking past the shape of the body wearing that fashion. I love your site, but let's not kid ourselves. The majority of your pictures are of girls who wear a size zero. I have lived in New York, and London, and San Francisco, and I know for a fact that while there are some fashionable girls on the street who wear a size zero, there are just as many who wear a size four, and just as many who wear a size eight, and just as many who wear a size fourteen. Maybe clothing drapes differently on a size fourteen body than originally intended by Karl Lagerfeld, but that's what makes that size fourteen interesting and real; it makes for a moment many of us do not see photographed and admired. Once you start snapping photos of women judging only their style and not their size, you'll begin to see that, empirically, there are just as many eights as zeros. And then, your perspective will shift and you'll see a size 6 and know that it is actually a bit smaller than average in NYC. And you'll see a size 12 and you'll call her curvy and your readers will understand what you mean when you use that word.

- Rebecca

rebeccapalermo.com

I really appreciate your follow up to this article. I am sick of hearing women, larger than model size, constantly have such a chip on their shoulder about their weight! The nit picking needs to stop. I am by the way 5'7 and a size 10, so I'm not tiny. Seriously, ladies, if you are happy with yourselves then embrace it! If not do something about it but quit calling thin women unhealthy and the like! Quit being offended at ever word which does not make you out to be a goddess! Curvy is a complementary word! That woman in the photo is curvy and she knows it and is gorgeous.

I really appreciate your follow up to this article. I am sick of hearing women, larger than model size, constantly have such a chip on their shoulder about their weight! The nit picking needs to stop. I am by the way 5'7 and a size 10, so I'm not tiny. Seriously, ladies, if you are happy with yourselves then embrace it! If not do something about it but quit calling thin women unhealthy and the like! Quit being offended at ever word which does not make you out to be a goddess! Curvy is a complementary word! That woman in the photo is curvy and she knows it and is gorgeous.

It wasn't the word "curvy" that I found offensive, it was your use of "bigger." There is nothing big about this beautiful woman.

Scott, I recently found both your book and blog. I am also from Indiana. I am by no means any kind of "Sartorialist". With the exception of an occasional funeral or Church service, I dress down into blue jeans and T shirt for casual wear everyday. The worst I have to worry about is, Does this shirt match the SHADE of blue of my jeans? Brand names and Fashion Designers means nothing to me (not that I don't have respect for their creations).
What attracted me to your book and blog is the COLOR of the clothing of the people in your photographs. Color, and color compliments and color contrasts, are some of the first things I like to notice about clothing.
I am an artist, though not professional. I am self taught, ever since the age of four. One way to teach yourself to draw and paint is to look around you in this world and to see things as they TRULY are. Hopefully, somewhere along the way, you will fall in love with how things really are -shapes, colors and perspective. There is just as much beauty in the wrinkle patterns of an elderly person's face as there is in the FORM of a young woman' body (try explaining THAT to your group of male friends in High school. Yes, I was an outcast and loner)!
I have been approached through out my life by people who wanted "quick" lessons on how to see and draw. If it was a guy, they wanted to know how to draw a woman, sometimes to attempt to draw a portrait of their girlfriend. I would start to instruct them by saying, "So, do you see the outside edge of the shape of her body, her overall form? This is what you need to see to capture her exact likeness. Do you see how her body CURVES here, and here, and here…?
Scott, to notice the curves of a woman's body doesn't always have to be about lust, but it ALWAYS has to be about seeing how people and things are shaped in the world. SHAPES add to the beauty of this world. It is being childish to have to argue over which is the CORRECT word to describe a curve, except to call it what it is, a curve.

Keep up the good work on your blog.

Thanks for your post. I saw nothing offensive in it all – you described her as beautiful. I am very curvy and have very strong muscly legs. I completely agree that you need balance in dressing, and that this will look different depending on your body shape. It is excellent that you notice balance so often in your posts. It is a key thing in people dressing well. Thanks very much.

I don't know if you'll ever read this but for once I'd like to comment.

I wasn't too shocked by the use of the word "curvy", and I think the comparatives "bigger" and "curvier" are accurate (come on, models are really, really thin!).

I agree with a previous comment that using "but" instead of "and" could be taken as an offense. Also I wouldn't say that she's "big", but neither did you.

I think that some readers should accept the words "curvy", not related to the weight, but only the shape of the body. I'm not skinny but could be considered as slim, although I do feel curvy (think about the new line of jeans from Levi's…).

You don't need to be big or fat to be curvy, and vice-versa, and curvy shouldn't be taken as an offense. To me, curvy is more womanly, maybe sexier, than the skinny-no-hips-no-chest girls we often see, but is by no means related to the weight of the person.

I think it was surprisingly insensitive to comment on her legs as "sturdy" and in need of a strong shoe to balance them out. Perhaps women are more sensitive to this than men (surely so), but it helps to be aware of this. If I were her, I'd be mortified to have been featured on your amazing site with this commentary below the photographs. The girl is gorgeous and her legs do not look at all "sturdy" or "curvy" to me. She looks like your average tall, gorgeous supermodel or fashion industry insider with long, fabulous legs. In any case, if you are going to discuss body type, it would help to have a real example of a curvy woman with sturdy legs. She is not that. Also, you should warn your subjects if you are going to discuss their bodies in this way on such a high-profile site.

Love your site despite this sincere critique, Sartorialist.

The important thing here is what is the name of her blog? Please give us the link.

The descriptive term "bigger" is certainly not flattering, nor is a "neutral" term that should be used lightly. My main problem with these kind of comments is that, yes, you're right, there is no "normal" – but to use a term like "bigger" suggests that there is. Someone's body can't be qualified as "bigger" without some norm to measure it against(i.e. how would you know to refer to something as bigger or smaller unless there was a normative and socially-constructed ideal somewhere in the middle?). This normative ideal is never mentioned as such; rarely on your blog do you mention how "tiny" or "non-curvy" someone is, so why would you point out how "big" and "curvy" someone is? It just sucks that skinny girls are accepted as such (as normative), while girls with more "normal" features have to be pointed out as "bigger."

Sorry to be harsh – I really do love your blog and you often do document non-normative beauty (racial and age difference, mostly). It would be nice though to see more shape and less skinny upper-middle class women.

"So help me understand; what is the modern way to speak about size?"

Well, you've clearly missed the point of so many thoughtful comments: The Sartorialist is primarily a style blog so readers are looking for commentary on Angelika's style, not her size. Comparing Angelika's size to others (in fashion industry or not) is objectifying and demeaning, period. When was the last time you compared the size of one man to another?

I don't get why other commenters think that the better option would have been if you hadn't left any commentary. That's obviously not a viable option since you explicitly stated that you wanted to discuss the harmony between her leg shape and her shoe.

I think that your description is perfectly fine. Your use of the adjectives "bigger" and "curvier" do not mean "fat" because you specifically described her in these terms IN RELATION to an unusually skinny group of people. If you had simply said she was a bigger and curvier person in general then it would have been problematic.

On that note, great job!

She is Slim. not skinny, but healthy.
The average American woman is supposed to be 5"4 and 140 lbs.
That is not slim at all, that is average/normal. This woman is clearly smaller than that.
I am 5"8, 135 lbs. I am not petite, small, delicate, skinny or tiny. I like being referred to as slim, healthy and athletic because all of those things are true.
That being said, I love your blog and every single photo on it. Thank you!

Thank you Scott for posting beautiful pictures and – unlike many in the fashion industry – being open to talk about the issue of body image.
However, I don't think of her as curvy – that often has a negative connotation, maybe? I think many girls don't want to be called 'curvy' and I think many people would love to have the body of the girl in this picture and they thus feel slightly taken aback to think that this goal of a good, healthy body is considered 'curvy' which many use as a euphemism for 'fat', but which I'm sure you were not trying to do! We women are quite complex.

Keep it up :)

i must agree with a lot of the comments: i would have never ever thought of this girl as "bigger" or "curvier" than average. and i miss more variety in body size on this blog. one of the best dressed girls i know is on larger side (to put it nicely) which doesn't make her any less stylish. it would be nice to see some examples of that.

since this is a fashion blog i don't really see your need to point out the figure of a completely normal sized really pretty girl and i find it somewhat offensive. eventhough i'm sure that wasn't your intention at all.

but love her! and still love your blog! :) would love it even more if you would post more variety in body types without feeling the need to comment on it.

Scott, don't let readers tell you what you can or cannot talk about. It is legitimate for you to write about ways in which a woman capitalizes on her figure.
You made a wonderful website by doing something that hadn't been done before. Maybe you can launch another trend by making us a little less uptight about the words we use to describe a body. I don't think you will lose readers that way, if that is a concern.
Especially since curvy is, really, a proper use of the word. Whoever thinks curvy is an understatement for saying that a woman is fat is reinforcing a stigma that shouldn't exist. Curvy is good! Keep writing the way you do.

A very though provoking post that seems to have caused lots of controversy, to be honest I can't tell from the photos if she is curvaceous or not, she looks like a very attractive girl, with great style and well defined athletic legs, the legs of a good skier!

I adore her boots, I would describe myself as curvaceous and with good proportions but have extremely slender legs and ankles so unfortunately those gorgeous boots would probably look ridiculous on me.

Those shoes are TO DIE FOR! love em! I must blog about those shoes!!!

I love your photographs. I love what you write. Would you share with me what type of camera you use? I liked seeing this girl with her camera.

Best Wishes,

Adam

yeah — i am not sure why a long comment needs to be made about her body at all. Most of the time your pics speak for themselves unless you are noting a particular fashion-y thing, like the length of a cuff.

In terms of language — I'd call her a non-waif, or maybe "womanly."

And skinny girls get their noses bent out of shape over language too, because my solution, for example, implies that they are un-womanly because they don't have wide hips and breasts.

How about you keep your commenting to clothes, less on bodies, and feature everyone equally? It's like Crystal Wren's situation: she should just be considered a supermodel, not a plus-size supermodel.

Stitching in Circles

i guess a lot of people had a problem with the wording because "curvy" tends to imply "fat", which she is anything but. In fact, I wouldn't have even made mention of her looks at all because she's a gorgeous thin woman…just like all the other women on this blog! (Not that there's anything wrong with posting photos of attractive women, but I just wouldn't claim there's much difference between her and anyone else on your blog.)

Hey Scott call it as you want and see it – I get it – just be careful to call it with the blessing of the one you love or the curviest thing you feel next might be a baseball bat or heavy purse…(sic)

I think the woman in your shots is stunning and the fact that it is not until you reference the man and the umbrella that you realize the perspective is enough to make it stand strong in your defense…

Just sayin' man!

Hi Scott, after several years spent looking at your pictures it's unbelieveble to see me on your blog! thank you so much,I promise I will improve my english for the next time I'll see you ;)

thank you very much for all the sweet comments i read.i also saw many of you are interested in taking a look at my blog,i leave here the adress

http://angystearoom.blogspot.com

kisses, Angelika

Can we all be fair for a second? I've read posts saying things like "don't call her curvy- I'd rather have her legs instead of chicken legs."
So…we're saying we should NOT call her curvy, but we can call a skinny girl's legs "chicken legs"?
really? that's justice?
There are countless comments on this post that choose to offend skinny girls in order to come to this girl's rescue and that hardly seems fair, doesn't it? People are saying things like you should show more "real" women. I'm 5'7 and 110 pounds..I'm slim for sure.. but am I not real? Should you tell me I have chicken legs or am abnormal?
Absolutely not. Insulting someone who is skinny is just as wrong, hurtful and offensive as insulting someone who is of average weight, or overweight.

Scott said she is bigger THAN most others in certain fields within the fashion industry. That's not calling her "big" but bigger THAN a certain number of usually extremely slim people. Let's not just throw out the context of the sentence and focus on whatever words one may decide to choose.
He never called her unattractive, rather he complimented her body and style, yet so many are quick to call skinny "protruding bones" unattractive. Tell me, is that fair?

I hate that in the argument for all women being considered beautiful people feel it's okay to put down those who are naturally slim. I'm tired of having people tell me I must not eat or that I don't have a "real" woman's body.
If you want respect show it.

-Mary M.

The "curviness" fo her body clearly shows on the first picture, you can tell just by the way the jeans fit her. I personally don't see what is wrong with the word curvy. Saying she has a curvy body is not the equivalent of bigger. Some very skinny girls have an hourglass shaped body.

Idea.

You have the REAL image of the girl in your head.

We all see a photo of a pretty and slim woman, (becuase your shots are so good, and because the shoes work so well…your point exactly) but she is likely someone who is skinnier than a lot of us, your readers.

No one whats someone who looks skinnier than themselves to be called sturdy or curvy…
Because that means…. well if she is sturdy and curvy, well then what does that make us?

I don't have a problem with calling someone curvy if they are curvy…it's just that this is a slim woman. In the first picture you might be able to describe her calves as "curvy" but I think that's just the short jeans, as in the next picture, her legs look long and lean.

Anyway, I think she's lovely and has great taste!

Scott is absolutely right. This woman is indeed "bigger, curvier than most of the other bloggers who you see in the press." She may be "average" in the US, but she's certainly *not* the norm in the fashion industry. And it's wonderful to see her body type represented here! To ignore the fact that her body is different would be a pretense, and I'm glad Scott didn't go that route.

Why are we so afraid to use the word "curvy" anyway? It shouldn't have a negative connotation. Most curvy girls I know adore their figure and wouldn't change it for the world. Yes, positive (curvaceous) fashion role models are needed, but models like Lara Stone and sites like this are slowly making that happen. Can't wait to see the rest of this photo set!

http://streetnumbereight.blogspot.com/

i have a slim frame but larger legs. frankly, i do not see the curves on this girl. maybe we are all "curvy" in Chicago.

"A number of the commenters are upset by the word 'curvy.' They feel I should have used the word 'normal.' However, normal is relative."

Agree that the concept of 'normal' is relative–not to mention loaded–but so is 'curvy.' This woman is 'curvy' relative to most of the women you see on this blog or in fashion. But she doesn't appear in the photos to be 'curvy' by many people's standards.

I think you struck the right balance with "curvier girl than most of the other bloggers," though I'm still not sure any woman ever wants any body part of hers to be described as "sturdy." Makes her sound a bit like a racehorse.

your observations set my mind in motion. I like that.

I have almost the same body type, but I've never in my life been called curvy. Those legs look strong and over all she looks very healthy to me.

Go tall girls!

what i find a bit strange is making a post out of a woman who is supposedly curvy when in fact she is really smaller than the average UK dress size….you never seem to comment on all the other women's sizes who are actually pretty small so why feel the need to comment on her size?

If we need to discuss this girl's figure, let' also discuss the size of the stomach hiding under the jacket of "Winter White Florence" a few photos below her. I thought we were discussing fashion!

I very much appreciate you putting up a picture of a woman who is not "skinny." I think we get into the issue of words because size is such a sensitive subject. This woman is beautiful regardless of her size. And certainly, the fashion industry is not a place from which I want the word "normal" to be defined. I think, though, there is nothing wrong with the word "curvy." Curvy is gorgeous. And normal. And I love this woman's shape and I would love to see more woman like her represented not only here but across media and fashion!

I can't wait to see your photo of another gorgeous woman tomorrow!

I don't see an issue with using the word 'curvy'. Why should having curves be seen as somehow unattractive, and therefore have a negative response?
Describing a skinnier girl as 'petite' or maybe 'waiflike' wouldn't garner the same reaction, I'll bet.

Scott's post respectfully (and accurately) described the shape of her body while putting the focus of his post on her proportions. I don't see this post about proportion as any different to his posts which describe texture or colour.

Great job as always Scott.

On the one hand I appreciate your desire to talk about this kind of thing, and certainly you're genuine. On the other hand, I think on a blog like this with the clout you have, it's more of a statement to feature her on your blog without reference to her body type, simply showcasing her as another great example of interesting and inspiring style.

First of all: great photos, as usual. You kindly asked for feedback about what words to use in descriptions, and, mercy me, you sure got a lot of it, but nothing that got to the heart of the problem: it's all subjective. Unless you are able to put the people on a set of scales, measure their height, and compare the results to the (now and then in flux) doctors' charts, it's going to be subjective. "Normal" implies normative, and so I can see why you'd like to avoid this term. The only way out of this problem, I think, is to try to keep the assessment as objective as possible, and that means using your subjective judgement to come up with as close a reference to an objective, commonly understood frame of reference as possible: the doctors' charts (ex., "seems underweight/average/overweight, according to the XYZ chart published in 20XX"), or clothes sizes (but the latter is problematic, as the pairing of the size of the garment with the size listed on the tag is decided company by company…alas…shopping would be so much easier if that relationship were standardized).

Scott I think the problem is curvy has become a euphemism for overweight ( dare I say fat.) Best to avoid body descriptions in this PC world where descriptive words morph into insults. I am an older man and I certainly remember the era when ethnic slurs and negative descriptions were "normal." The new PC era can be a bit much, but clearly a better direction. Thanks for caring about your audience and for your always compelling work.

Love those shoes!

And seriously, it is ridiculous that the term "curvy" is now code for "fat." This woman has a nice shape and more rounded curves than the willowy females normally featured on this blog.

Your post was perfect. She is beautiful. Folks who find fault with either have an agenda you don't need to pay attention to.

Do your thing. Be unapologetic. The rest is irrelevant distraction.

Kind regards,
Andy

Not sure I'm seeing what everyone else is. Take away the shoes here in London, would most look twice at this woman re: her fashion sense? Seems a tad bland to me and the shoes are far too big for the cut of the jeans.

As for 'curvy', she is no strapping lass but her legs do look curvy in tight jeans but they look like muscular curves to me. As a man, I do not use curvy as a euphemism for 'fat'.

Some good comments above regarding the use of 'sturdy', 'bigger' etc. but I wonder what larger women feel when so many of those defending them against this damaging use of language all tail their comments with 'she is perfect'. If so, what are the larger women reading these comments supposed to think (or the smaller ones come to that).

I'm still baffled as to why her size was mentioned at all.

I don't think the word "normal" is quite the right word. I'm very thin "normally", as in, I don't starve myself, nor do I eat a diet that's for the birds. This is how I "normally" am. There is no way I could ever have this woman's curves "normally". If she is normal, then that means my body type is abnormal, which I completely disagree with. It's the way I was made, and it's the way I'll stay. This woman is obviously NOT super thin. She *is* curvy when you take into consideration all the different shapes that are out there.

do you really think this girl is curvy? i guess theres something wrong with the female role models today. she's 100% normal and a bit skinny and her style is hot.her shoes also.

I don't have a problem with the word "curvy." I have a problem with the use of the word "bigger." Bigger than whom? To me, she looks like an average size woman. I totally agree with "The Blonde Mule's" post. Why the need to use body type descriptions at all? And if you do, use them for the "less bigger" women out there as well.

Definitely don't use the word "big". Not many women like to be called "big" even if it is in relation to their height or just the fact that they are actually "bigger" than a petite person.
I personally like "curvy" but a women who is "bigger" than a petite or super skinny body type may be athletically bigger and not at all "curvy".
One way to deal with it is to continue posting the pictures but not necessarily make a comment about the body "type" – each viewer will no doubt interpret that themselves. The issue is that as a woman I want to see a range of sizes and body types but we don't want to be some how labeled as a "different category" from the "normal" model.

What really makes me laugh is all the magazines that say that Giselle and other models like her are "curvy".

I think curvy is a nice word. I think things get scary when the word curvy is preceded by "bigger." Whether you mean taller, heavier, or healthier it is just a vague word with a negative connotation when associated with the female body.

http://approachableindie.com

Can somebody please tell me the name of her blog? I'm desperate to see it, us sturdy girls need inspiration too!

She's beautiful and I love that you're talking about curves and age! Keep going!

I wish I had the courage for the shoes. She looks awesome.
fashiontypology.blogspot.com

Perhaps you shouldn't say anything about her size at all. She is a beautiful, well-dressed woman. The lovely photographs speak for themselves. Her name would suffice as a caption.

Scott……

You're a dude….you say "curvy" I'd say thick but to some (ladies) that would be offensive too..so you're doin' ok.
Both are meant to be descriptive and complementry, but we're GUYS and we never get it right….."does this ——make my butt look big?" Hell yeah…..I like big butts…..WRONG! So what are ya gonna do? Do YOU…..with love man. I don't know the secret to success, but the secret to failure is trying to please EVERYONE.

Gladman

i'm not sure why there was any need to comment on her body type. i think we all know what we mean when we say that she has a "normal" body size. meaning that she looks healthy and is not a stick figure, more like a skinny everyday person. i think that pointing out that she is bigger than the other bloggers is just doing a disservice to regular sized people. not all of us can be twigs, and i think she has a nice, muscular fit. if anything you should describe her as being fit and using clothes that go well with the contours of her body. usually people use "curvy" as a polite term for those that are like size 10 or something. and if you are going to talk about her curviness and post pics where we cannot see all of it, then her curviness becomes irrelevant. help all girls out and make posts with girls that are more "normal" sized. and don't hide behind the illusion of words; i think we all know that models are not reflective of the general population size and are held to a different standard when it comes to appearance, so saying she is a "normal" sized girl means that she is someone we can truly aspire to be like without eating like a rabbit for most girls.

I am glad to see this. I'm in fashion too and refer to body type as curvy or straight. A woman who is a size 2 can be curvy, as it is about the shape, not size. So, you explained it well for me. Perhaps some of the younger readers should get educated before they 'bash'.

I appreciate that you noticed someone other than a stick as beautiful. I'm 5'2" and 97 lbs and am taller and larger than 5 women in my family, but to everyone else I'm a total shrimp. My dr thought I had a problem for years when I wasn't growing but in my family I'm above average. It's all relative. I think "curvy" is a perfectly appropriate word. Unless you eat 15 hamburgers a day or nothing, you are nothing more than the outcome of your genetics. It's not like tiny people are the only ones who are allowed to be in fashion even though it seems that way sometimes. If more style bloggers posted women like her I'm sure the subject wouldn't be so taboo.

I wonder why these angry people feel this "curvy" comment is so offensive yet people think it's totally ok to walk up to me and comment on how tiny I am. I'm sure they wouldn't walk up to me and tell me how fat I was if I was bigger. What's with the double standard?

I think its just interesting to hear a man's description of a woman's size in this way. Its really not a big deal in the scheme of things, and gosh, if the pictured woman is reading all this she's probably wondering why all the fuss, she looks amazing!! I know as a woman, I would find "sturdy" to be not a compliment, although I wouldn't punch you. I think we all get what you meant, and you just seem to have been searching for a somewhat neutral word to describe legs I would die for. Interesting what emotion it evoked though.

i loved what you said about the harmony of the shoes w/her legs.

as someone with curvy legs, i think all of the language you said was completely appropriate and descriptive.

"normal" would be wrong because there are plenty of normal girls out there who are quite thin and excluding them from the "normal" category is offensive to them.

like you said, it's all relative.

There was nothing wrong with your choice of words, at all. Don't let people put words in your mouth (or take them out).

Saying that someone is "normal" would be extremely offensive no matter who you said it about because it automatically alienates everyone else who isn't like that. I am barely over 100 lbs; I'm one of those girls who would look at fashion magazines when I was 12-14 to make myself feel better because all of the girls around me were getting curvy and I wasn't. Saying that she looks normal, implying healthy, would have been offensive to someone like me. However, curvy is a shape, so it's a fine way to describe someone; just like saying that someone of my body type is thin, slim, or even flat would be fine because it's a body shape.

Whoa Scott!

It looks like the comments got a bit out of control!

It's funny because I saw the post this morning and thought to myself "curvy – ha! this guy is crazy" Which is probably what everyone else is thinking. However, as I read the post again I noticed that you were comparing her to other fashion bloggers "loved that she's a bigger, curvier girl THAN most of the other bloggers" which is definitely a good point. As I continued reading I loved the point you made about the size of her legs and the Litas. There is a beautiful balance between the size of her legs and the chunky shoes.

I think all the readers should stop focusing on specific words and focus on the content. By the way sturdy means strong- there's no better way to describe her.

I can truly understand both sides of this argument. I am a size 14 with DD's, a serious bum, and a smaller waist. I LOVE fashion and am consistently inspired by this blog. I obviously can't wear a lot of the outfits that the tiny model types can, but I am daily acclaimed for my style. I get that Scott was trying to compliment his subject for choosing shoes that work for her body, but I also see that if this lovely girl is "bigger" than what would someone like me be considered?? I believe in dressing beautifully and representing oneself through fashion no matter what size one happens to be at the moment. Scott, thank you for sharing inspirational photos and for making us think. I like that you've evoked such strong opinions from the lives you touch. Keep up the good work!

My Repetto ballet flats have been a key element of my personal style for years, but apparently, all this time, these "dainty" shoes have been "overpowered' by my "sturdy" legs. (Legs which are, by the way, sturdy from years of competitive long-distance running.) What a shame.

I appreciate your opening this topic up for discussion.

I'm with the obvious MANY who see this woman as beautiful, stylish and interesting regardless of her size, which is not "big" by any stretch. While someone might NOTICE that, because people (men and women) come in a great variety of dimensions and some are taller, shorter, curvier, straighter, etc … it seems hardly worth mentioning the differences if they are, in fact, beautiful. And this woman is.

So I'm with the "why mention it at all" group.

If it's not necessary for you to provide adjectives for very slender women who are also beautiful or for men and women who are older, younger or hairy, bald … why does there need to be an adjective besides "gorgeous" to describe a beautiful woman who isn't "model thin"?

I so love your blog both for your photos and your attitude. Thanks for being receptive to this type of discussion and for showing vulnerability.

From a beautiful (to someone) woman with "athletic calves" (but who cares?)

Just about the using of the words,as the question was around me,i can say i wasn't offended at all,i don't think that curvy and big are sinonimous of overweight or fat,i believe indeed that being called curvy has a positive meaning.i'm of course different from the most of the girls who work in this business but i can ensure that i'm not fat or overweight,i'm healty,this is my body shape and i think that scott used those words just to focus my qualities,people should look beyond it and appreciate that such a influent blog like this published a kind of body which is different from the ones you use to see in the fashion business.

anyway,I don't speak english very well so maybe i cannot give these words the correct meaning,or maybe for this reason i can give the right meaning to these words beyond the prejudices that maybe are around "big"and "curvy

Angelica

She's beautiful, and looks like she's about my size, which yes, is curvy. In the fashion world anyway.
These things are are relative, and in the fashion world sizes are relatively small (or tiny), so that makes girls like her and me curvy.
The rest of the world doesn't think so, but the fashion world does. Simple. It's all about the circles you move in.
And most people don't 'live' in the fashion world, so they will simply view us as normal or even skinny. In you hang out with the Weight Watchers crew, you'll be their ideal woman.
Ahh, choices.
X
Ann

oh dear, the hornet's nest has been stirred he he

I understood your post completely. I have legs which are proportionately 'heavier' than the upper part of my body, so I embrace the challenge and dress to even out the proportions. And I do look better for it. Full stop.

Thank you for your wonderful blog Scott.

I personally do not take issue with the title "curvy" if it does in fact apply to her proportions. The rhetoric is tricky in this situation but I think perhaps "natural" or "healthy" might be more pleasing to some readers. Then of course it would suggest to others that thinness is unnatural(which it is not to some people).
I think perhaps the best way to escape this worm-hole would be to disregard adjectives altogether and simple comment on her shoe style in proportion to the shape of her leg. I like the post and understand your well intentioned meaning. Keep posting about body harmony. I appreciate the tips.

Scott, I haven't read the comments, but I did read your update. Frankly, the use of the word 'curvy' is neither here nor there for me. What I do find rather appalling is the use of the word 'sturdy'. All legs, given what they do for able bodied people on a daily basis, are sturdy.

As a suggestion, why not just post photos without any kind of body commentary because you don't do it for other posts, and it's not your admitted area of knowledge, and simply let the fashion speak for itself?

I run a <a href="http://runwayrevolution.com>blog</a&gt; showing the work of agency +plus models and I do not have any discussion about size/height/shape. I let people decide for themselves what they see, and what is relevant to their own vision of fashion and body type.

I will say in parting that if you have taken a good photo of the fashion element you wished to show us, then we will see the proportions in balance, etc and not need to have it spelled out in the text.

http://runwayrevolution.com

Scott has a book?! What book?!

Scott, love love love your blog and this post amongst others. As a healthy-looking, size 8, curvy African girl (and blogger), I can assure you that the curvo-meter for us women varies on both extreme ends of the scale. You have women who are a size 2, and still 'curvy', so your description of this girl is pretty spot on.

Love the purple shoes on this girl and she wears them with such ease. Love your lens!

xx

The media's view of the female body is critical, vexing, and frustrating, not your take on it. There are curvy bodies, bodies that have presence, even at a size 6. She has presence, and you made that observation.

This is your blog; it is your point of view and your observation. We react to whatever that is. Please don't flinch. You are kind, flattering, insightful, a gentleman. And you have an eye for fashion and form that many of us can only dream of catching one day.

Why mention it at all? If there is no "normal" can there really be a "curvier"? Truly…if there is no real middle ground how can you compare? How about just saying she is stylish and leaving her size out of it?

I think what really tripped people up was putting such an emphasis on the fact that she is a larger size when she appears to be pretty average. I would suggest showing photographs that showcase her curves and talking about how the clothes flatter the curves in a very positive way. I guarantee other curvy women would feel appreciative!

Also, I understand that you are only using these words as a means to get your point across, but it is very critical how you approach sensitive topics like body size. The words and phrasing matter because of how the overall tone and message come across to people. I hope this was helpful!

I personally loved this post, and this is coming from a curvy woman :)

Eliana
http://elianagershon.blogspot.com/

You work in an interesting medium–half visual, half verbal. It's clearly a challenge to address sensitive topics like a woman's weight/size/proportions. I think I understood your main point–dainty shoes would not work with the proportions in play, whether we're talking body proportions, clothing proportions, whatever…in the same way that those shoes may have looked odd on a tiny waifish person or with a more delicate outfit. It's really a discussion of proportion you started with…quite innocent.

"Sturdy" may be a word best avoided in association with women's bodies, but at the end of the day it's your blog and you can say what you like…

Curvy is a good word, at least where i am from. Bigger that in between, but if she is bigger what else can you say. However – Sturdy??? Thats what you use to describe a car or building – In Trinidad, thick is even a compliment, but I would have gone with curvy, cute, stylish, taller, shapely, curvaceous and hott

1) Love your blog.
2) You asked, I say, why comment on her shape at all? On anyone else, you would just say "I love the style for xyz," not the prefaced: "Here is a bigger/older/skinnier/whatever than normal person. Here is why I love this style." If you feel the need to comment on the shape of the leg complimenting her leg, say so. But it could be said without sideways caveat. My $0.02.

I 100% support your current perception. Curvy means just that, a curvy body line. In her case it would be shapely legs since curvy is usually used to describe boob/waist/hip ratio. Too often have chubby/somewhat heavy women describe themselves as curvy (the worst is when I'm looking at customer review for sizing of the clothe I want to buy. Many women prefer to state they are "curvy" and give their bra size instead of actual body measurement, which does not help at all).

I've seen girls that looks about her weight but have absolutely no waist, its one straight line down to the hips. I've also seen skinnier girls with really wide hips. Please please please do not succumb to the pressure of using curvy to describe a weight instead of shape of the body. I love your blog and will be very very sad if you do.

I think the really important thing here is that this woman's body type was made relevant at all on your post, after all, we never read the equivalent "so and so complements the unsturdy but beautiful shape of her legs with an equally dainty shoe" etc. This reinforces some of the silly ideas we have about a woman's body: skinny bodies look on everything, we should always dress to look long and lean, so on and so forth.

I think we could take this opportunity to think about all the subliminal messages we get sent and also send out about women's bodys and beauty in general.

Aren't we just constantly parroting and spreading patriarchal ideas without even noticing it?

What do we really believe?
And do we express those believes to the world when we communicate?

These are all much deeper issues and a nerve was touched here. I think that's ok, maybe even great.

I do love your blog and your gorgeous photographs!

I don't understand why you felt the need to comment on her size at all. Why not just post older women, women of different races, women of different sizes and NOT point it out? You should just be posting styles you find compelling. The fact that you felt you needed to point out her size/shape at all suggests that you wanted some kind of special credit for it. It's nice that you posted someone "different", but I bet you see larger women in great outfits all the time, and your eye just passes them right by for the white thin woman in the tight skirt.

there's nothing wrong with the word curvy, i agree that it describes a body type and not a weight. and i'm glad that you try to represent different ages, styles and body types on your blog because the fashion world is all too biased when it comes to these issues. however, i agree with some of the other comments on here. this girl is by no means "big" or "bigger". those terms tend to be associated with overweight people, and this woman is not even close to being fat.

other than that, i think it's great you're asking this question, keep up the great work!

Hi Mr. Sartorialist,

I hop onto your blog every few days to have a peek at the wonders you manage to capture that most wouldn't normally notice in our day to day.

I have just read your comments re: the outcry that people have when you address a curvy woman as curvy and wheter or not it is something to feel bad about because oof political correctness or just plain bad taste.

The problem I have is that if this was a slimmer lady, her body size or shape wouldn't be addressed, rather just the form, line and quirkiness of the way she has put the outfit together. But the moment it's a woman of a slightly larger body size (and to be honest this particular lady has a great figure) immediately the sentence makes reference to her body size/shape as the first point to address.

So really the only way to address this issue is to either 1. not immediately talk about her body type in the topic of conversation and only focus on, in these specific images, her strong stance or the pop color or whatever it is that you like about her look,OR 2. actually start writing about the slimmer people in general that you deem a little more 'normal' with the topic of conversation about their body shape too.

You see, the problem's not that you have addressed it with this particular person, but that you don't with any of the others, male or female.

Laura Macri
Australia

The problem is that you make a big deal out of bodies outside of the norm. In five sentences, you mention the fact that she is larger than your usual subjects five times. We know she's larger than a regular model, because we have eyes. You don't need to make such a fuss over it.

Putting this girl on your blog is not powerful in and of itself. A truly powerful action would be to be truly inclusive; to feature a wide (certainly wider than this girl) range of body types, ages and ethnicities on a regular basis.

I appreciate your addendum; I think you should be proud of the variety of your posts.

In recent years, the word "curvy" has been cast in an ugly light, in large part thanks to unfair, blitzed celebrity media. I am 5'4, 110lbs, and I'm often told I'm curvy. I'm also told I'm rather slim.

"Curvy" does not connote "big," or "fat." Sure, in the eyes of many women, "curvy" is normal; but as you point out, what is normal?

Curvy women: own your shape! This curvy woman certainly does.

I think all the folks kicking up a fuss about this so-called misuse of the word curvy are being quite silly.

Curvy is an adjective, not a label. This woman has curves. They are present in the photo. If anything, I felt that you were pointing out that in the real world, women come in all shapes, and when I say shapes, I'm not even referring to weight! It's just a fact.

Honestly, all this oversensitivity and stick-up-the-butt political correctness only perpetuates the negativity rather than preventing it.

What makes this blog so splendid to me is seeing all that fashion being applied to the real world. People can be classy no matter what shape they are, and this gorgeous, curvy lady is definitely that.

I really do love the variety of people you put on your site. Style is style…no matter the size, age, race, gender, whatever. It is weird that the term curvy has negative connotation and I think that's because there isn't a polite way to speak about a person's weight. You just have to say what you mean and screw political correctness. The point of the sturdy shoe for her body type should be the focus… not your word choice. She's a beautiful woman who knows how to dress herself.
:)

As a person who is built small on the top and larger on the bottom, I really appreciated your comment about how Angelika has taken her body into consideration in her clothing choices. Having style isn't about dressing according to trend, but understanding yourself; and understanding yourself means understanding your body and what works for it. This post illustrates just that; and the conversation that we should be having shouldn't be about defining Agelika's body type, but about how this post showcases a woman who knows how to dress according to her body type.

I jumped 605 cooments to say,jaaaa u are right is your blog so be free,and i understand very well whats u said!!im Fat,im big,im Voluptos,over size,xxl,but…if you want be gently with me call me curvy,bcs independent of the weight i have,im proud of my curves…and she is faboulous!!!

beautiful, and if you ask me you can keep on using the word curvy, very apt,and I think complimentary, curves are great.

i think it's a fact that she's "curvier" than most fashion models and arguably more shapely than most models and some bloggers. i'm 5'9'' and 122lbs. i have great genes but work hard to maintain my figure at nearly 30yrs old. i saw this picture and was immediately drawn to her amazing sense of fashion, not so much her size. she's also got amazing bone structure that most people would love to possess. i wasn't offended by your post. i get your point: in a world where emaciation and skin and bones sells magazines and clothes, a woman that looks like this should be the ideal: healthy, with a beautiful shape, and exuding confidence! i also admire the fact that you chose to highlight her as a blogger, and would LOVE for you to post a link to her blog!
http://indieelectronicalternative.blogspot.com/

I commend you for refusing to use the word "normal" when talking about a person. Period. Yes, it is true that as a country, maybe even as a species, an "average" body type could be found, but this says nothing to the average body type found within the fashion industry which I believe it what you were referring to. There is an "average" for human females, and a subset "average" for those in the fashion industry. Let's stop fooling ourselves, there are more skinny/slim/tall people in the world of fashion than in our humble world of mere mortals. And that's OK. Just as it is OK that olympic athletes have greater muscle development than the "average" person. We see more slim/skinny models and blogger day-to-day and since she does not fit that "norm" you made an observation. An innocent one but yet many were still offended.

One point I like to make when people are offended because there is a lack of "normal" girls on the runway, blogs, etc., don't they see it is just as offensive to that girl sitting at home who may be naturally skinny? Lucky, I know, but my best friend has dealt with this her whole life. People would ask if she has an eating disorder but her frame is just small and she is always trying to put on weight because of these comments- is she not "normal"? Yes, she may be below average but she is just as normal as an overweight girl, or a girl with curves.

Last point, I promise. Curvy and overweight are not the same; they are not interchangeable terms. The misconception is that calling a girl "curvy" is a nice way of saying she is fat. Not true. A women can have larger boobs, hips, and a butt and have slimmer arms, legs, and stomach. If I call her curvy am I saying she is fat? No. I'm saying she is perfect! But of course that is only my ideal, what I, as a women, wish to look like. And that is where this gets tricky because no one has, or even should have, the same ideal.

A term to use in future posts? Well, I think you have seen just mentioning it using any term will stir the pot. We are a very politically correct country and we do not like to hear people calling it as they see it. I do. Most don't. If you do not want to offend then do not mention a women's size.

And we will all be very quite and stare at the pictures in silence.

Pay no attention! really… why would anyone feel offended by the words "bigger" and "curvy"? specially when said about somebody else… only those who have a self image issue right? (although from the pictures i saw she seems neither to me) either way, aren't blogs about expressing one's OPINION?

The thing is, you clearly have a preference for very thin women which suit a typical fashion crowd body type. I hope you realise that, because everyone has a right to a preference but annoying thing comes when they deny it.
So you used words "sturdy legs" and implied that she has noticeably bigger lower body (perhaps in comparison to what you usually prefer to photograph because not too long ago you made it clear that you won't shoot a person, no matter how stylish their outfit is, if they "don't look nice to you" and this is relevant because it is obvious that to you attractive=thin) But all I see here is another slim woman, perhaps not dancing on the edge of anorexia like most of the girls you photograph and post here, but just slightly less skinny than that ie. looking more healthy and "normal" in that sense of the word. As you know, nobody is trying to shame all women into a certain height but my goodness does the media and fashion industry try to shame all women into a certain size!
So I don't think your hight comparison is relevant in this context.

Your tone in the post implied that she is "above average" in terms of size and to most of us, realistically speaking, she is not, actually quite the opposite.
That tends to create a reaction of annoyance since we have the entire fashion and media industries play this game too. So if you want to jump on that bandwagon due to your own perceptions of beauty, feel free, and it's ok, but don't be puzzled when this is pointed out to you.
This girl is slim, not "curvy" in a sense that you tried to present in your original post. Just own up to it and keep up the good work.

I'm going to defend Scott on this one. He is simply stating that she in comparison to the press coverage of females in the genre, she would be an anomaly. He never said this was a bad thing.

Pretending everyone is the same would naive and ignorant, he's CELEBRATING our differences. That's a good thing.

I think it's swell that he's taking a risk here and sparking this conversation. Keep it up!

"Normal is relative"
Thank you, Scott.

There is not real language… I think it is nice to just read a person of your caliber referring to woman as curvy rather than fat. Frankly, that is a statement unto itself. Being a voluptuous woman myself, I appreciate this post and think that this woman portrayed is bad ass beautiful. Thanks for this.

http://www.greeneggsandglam.blogspot.com

After reading your update to this post I feel the need to comment for the first time:
I would say Curvy is a completely legitimate word to use, and flattering. "Big" however probably isn't quite so flattering. I'm a short woman, size 8-10 (depending) and am very "curvy" myself and although I have some big "parts" I certainly would want someone calling me "big" in print. Even if "big" was also a comment on her height, it's just not a great choice of adjective.

Hi Scott,

Please provide her blod id/URL.

XX

Something I will never understand is why women feel the need qualify words like curvy, model, and skinny, by associating them with words like healthy, normal, and beautiful. This woman could be perceived as possessing all of these traits by different eyes, and none of them are wrong. Thank you for the images you share, showing your readers the people who inspire you.

Scott,
I've been a fan of your blog for years, and this is the first time I've commented. When did "curvy" become a derogatory term? I think people are too sensitive about this. Your description of her made perfect sense for the point you were trying to make about proportion, etc., and I agree with your opinion of the word "normal." I myself am petite and slim…am I not "normal?"

Right on. Keep on keepin' on. And thanks for your honesty, as always.
-M

All the women you capture have a beauty all their own. We can see as followers that you too have an appreciation of them and don't limit them to whatever is termed "normal". Speaking from my own personal place, now as a 52 year old woman who has always enjoyed and loved fashion, I was truly thrilled to see all the lovely women you showed last week. It's telling, it shows me that what we were in our youth applies to how we are as "elder", that fashion doesn't go away as we age, it just creates the same yet a bit of fashion whimsy, elegance, sophistication and command of one's solid signature look. Thank you for always bringing intrigue to our eyes. It's lovely. Annabelle

Unfortunately the word curvy has become synonymous with fat. I can't even count how many times I've seen obese women describe themselves as curvy. It's become a safe word. When in fact anyone of any stature can be curvy, even thin women. I know girls who are 5 feet tall and 100 lbs. and just happen to carry extra weight in the bust and hips. I would categorize them as curvy. And the truth is that many fashion girls aren't just thin, they're skinny. I see what you're saying. Here's a woman who has more curves than the average fashion blogger. Curves do not equal overweight. People who use the word "curvy" need to re-evaluate.

For me, it was startling to see the description "bigger and curvier" after viewing pics of a girl who looks small or height/weight proportionate. For me, it just underlines the difference in "fashion normal" and "non-fashion normal." It made me feel sad, as I'm her size, and don't think of myself as "bigger." (Bigger than what?)

I agree with many of the posters here. I think the way to handle the situation best is by not mentioning it at all. You're here to comment on clothes, not body types. Merely by posting images of girls that we can all plainly see aren't size 0 model types will do justice enough. Better left unmentioned.